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What do women really hate that guys do? Not the obvious issues such as untrustworthiness, infidelity, stealing, drugs, abuse, etc, etc, because all those are givens, NO ONE in her or his right mind likes that crap. But ideally from a woman's perspective, when a guy is trying to be on his best behavior and all his intentions are good, what are some of the things that a guy can do that really ticks off a woman? Too much contact, not enough contact? A guy who's needy as opposed to a guy so aloof that he lives with you but has his own zip code / postal code? Do you give a long-time significant other more slack than someone new in your life or less slack? What? What the hell DON'T women want (if we can't figure out what they do want)?

Well speaking for myself I am fairly independent. My life does not center around my man. What I mean is we both have our interests and friends and pursue those. I would not like someone who has no interests or friends and smothers me.. That would probably be a quickly ending relationship.. We both had friends and interests before our relationship so why should that stop when we get together? We certainly have "Our" time together and it works well for the two of us. Just one womans opinion.

Good points, Flower, and thanks for contributing! I don't mean to generalize about women and this forum isn't to gripe about anything in particular. What's needy to one person is probably fine for another and perceived as aloof to a third person, and guys probably feel the same way toward women regarding personal space and how much time is spent together as a couple versus alone time.

But as a guy, to use an example, what I never want to hear is a woman ask me if a particular color suits her. As opposed to which other color? I'm lucky if my socks match and I'm supposed to understand colors? What, there's a secret language involving colors? Some sort of hidden meaning? So I'm wondering, what does a guy ask a woman or do that has her smack her forehead and say, Oh for the love of God...

If you were not fashion forward to begin with she knew what she was getting into. Tip about colors..black is slimming..LOL I have only asked this question once , the infamous, " Does this make my butt look big?" The answser " Your butt is big" "DUH"... We both started laughing never asked that one again..

Gender Specifics. ASSUMING I can or cannot do something, what I will or will not like, what I know or do not know, what I am capable or not capable of doing, based solely on the fact that I am woman.

One day, a man came home and was greeted by his wife dressed in a very sexy nightie.

"Tie me up," she purred, "and you can do anything you want."

So he tied her up and went golfing

Excellent point, Flower. (I will need to remember that for future reference, black is slimming)

Starry, no offense intended, but this might be a perfect example of conflicts based on gender. You're telling me something that is meaningful and very forthright, but I'm not sure what you're saying. It sounds like you don't agree that there are things men do that irritate women and things women do that irritate men, but I'm not 100% sure if what you're telling me is what I correctly understand. I'm not unintelligent and I know you aren't unintelligent either but I don't quite know what you mean to say. You might even be agreeing with me but the phrase "...on the fact that I am a woman" is raising considerable alarms and at this point, I'm not prepared to risk any sudden movements. I should probably give a neutral response if I had a clue what would be a neutral response in this situation. Probably, I would say something that would make you angry. Most definitely, not saying anything at all might make you angriest of all. Here is where in a real-time situation, I would say, "Huh", then clamp my mouth shut and nod knowingly, seconds before a significant other in my life is just about to go thermonuclear on my ass. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I've had this conversation before with an ex-girlfriend or two.

Heh heh, good one, Cristo (better write that one down, too)

LOL It's ok to breathe, sudden movements won't alarm me. I gave a short answer because I am on my way to work. Chemo patients today. My meaning was quite simple actually. I will explain in more detail when I get home.

7 there can be not enough contact and too much contact, there needs to be a balance. I personally think when you r with that special someone you need to make them feel like they r special, do not turn your head at other girls. All girls like different things just like guys. So it's hard to say what women want. The other thing is if a woman cant tell you what she wants in a relationship, theres a problem. If you act like yourself and she doesnt like you then you shouldnt be together. Basic things that i like in a guy im first dating are obviously attraction, you just have to be at least somewhat attracted to them. Two sense of humor, if you can make me laugh, youve got me. I like smart guys, a wit and a good personality really makes a person better looking in my eyes. I dont want to be smothered but I dont want a guy to go days with out calling me either. I think its nice to have a guy call and say hey I just called to let you know im thinking about you, or send me flowers. I think alot of women need to be more straight out with men but thats just me, believe me ill tell a man what I like or dislike.

oh I guess i didnt answer your ?s. I cant stand guys that doesnt have his own money. I like gentlemen and I want a guy who is going to be able to take me out and not worry. I cant stand men who arent stable and need stuff from me, he would be out the door so quick.

Well I dont want a momma's boy. I want someone who is self sufficent and not looking for someone to serve him hand and foot. This person has to have a job, cause for sure im not supporting no man. Has to be funny, a gentlemen, smart, sexy in his own way, a mutual attraction is a must.And have time to spend with me. Has can't be overbearing or controling, cause thats time to say bye bye. Oh and If he drinks like a fish,or does any kind of drugs and doesnt treat me with respect and my daughter hes bye bye. Im very independent and i like my own space, and this person should have his own friends and a life besides being with me.I dont like to be called fifty times a day, once or twice a day is all good cause then i find its total overkill. And he must like animals. We have to have some things in common which i find par for the course.

Oh manny is so right! I agree with ya girl on it all and being good to my kids is a definate must

Good posts, MB & Melissa, thanks for your contributions!

What I dont want, I will sum it up here:

I dont want insecure, immature, arrogant, egotistical, wimpy, cry baby men. I expect them to act like the adults they are, well supposed to be. I dont want slobs, I dont want liars, cheats, fakes. That should sum it up.

Thanks for posting, Elizabeth.

I think Melissa made a good point about having the right balance in determining how much contact is considered okay (why the hell did I just sound like Dr. Phil when I wrote this? I digress), which seems to be echoed by other contributors. A question I have is, is this communicated to the guy? Is he told, too much, just okay, not enough? Look, some guys are needy, some guys are controlling, but not all are born that way, some are made. Maybe you didn't make him that way, but someone else might have.

Communication is way important but I think it's important to realize that men and women don't communicate in the same way or may necessarily reach the intended conclusion. Case in point, a woman has a problem. From everything I've read on the subject, women are concensus-builders. When problems are discussed, it's to be supportive while data-gathering in order to understand the problem most effectively and consider all possible solutions. Men are problem-solvers. Tell me a problem and instantly I have a list of solutions. If solution 'A' doesn't fix it, try solution 'B'. Obviously there's a problem, so why talk it to death because the problem won't solve itself, and if 'B' doesn't work, try 'C'.

But good points, all, and thanks to everyone for contributing. (Jeezus, I did turn into Doctor Phil)

If I may, as I read everything, there are some things I find very distressing. We all say communication, but I find it is not communication, it is how we communicate. This men versus women on how they communicate is non-sense. The lack of ability to understand, or choice not to accept what was said, is the issue. I intentionally answered the way I did. Why? there is no doubt, no question, no gray area in what I said. The problem with it, most people cannot deal with it. They want everything sugar coated. In applying the sugar, the message gets distorted. There is nothing wrong with one speaking openly, honestly, directly and to the point. It is simply how you deliver it. And one needs to do that on a dating site.

Sure, Elizabeth, and that's fine to be direct. Trust me, when as a guy I've played that "Guess-What-I'm-Thinking" game one too many times or had to try to figure out what the hell it really means when your eventual ex-wife says she doesn't want a Valentine's gift, receiving information direct and to the point is a refreshing change. A lot of guys hate being the Amazing Kreskin and trying to mind read what their partner is thinking or to have to read into the silences between the sentences for what is really being said.

But I don't see anything wrong with sugar-coating-- I work in technical support, sugar-coating is 80% of what I do when a client calls in who received a word doc email attchment overnight, worked on it through breaks and lunch, thought she saved it around 2:00 pm but isn't sure where, closed Word around 3:00, but is unable to find it at 3:30 when her boss wants to see the results. People want hope. They want a sincere effort made, they want to believe that I am the guy who can get them back their lost document. Once in a while, I can. Most often, I could be efficient and give them a direct answer: "It's gone, get over it." But I actually sympathize with those people because I've been in their shoes and when I need to give them bad news, I try to be as nice as I can because I truly empathize and if I'm too direct I'll have my ass fired. Not only that, I find that if I'm sugary nice at work but away from work I do a 180 degree attitudinal change, my sugary niceness at work becomes insincere and I become cynical toward people in general, at work and on my own time.

Direct is nice. Except when it's mean. Sure, sometimes on a dating site, you have to be mean but not as a first response all of the time or at least I can't be that way. Blame my parents, they could have raised me to be blunt and direct but instead they raised me to be nice and polite to people. There's nothing wrong with sugar-coating, there's nothing wrong with being bluntly direct, but to thine own self be true. And be honest, if everyone was blunt and direct, wouldn't it tick you off to no end to be stopped every five feet by a stranger who tells you how awful those shoes are?

And you may be right, it may not be communication that is the difference between men and women but I fully believe it men and women react differently to what are essentially the same words. Try it out. Go up to a female friend and tell her, "We need to talk." Take note of her reaction: she will possibly look concerned but she will definitely want to engage in a conversation about whatever needs to be discussed. Go up to a male acquaintance and tell him, "We need to talk." Talking is the LAST thing he wants to do. He wants to run. If he ever heard those 4 words before, he never wants to hear them again. Even if he is only a casual work associate, those 4 words are guaranteed to terrify any man.

Well I will disagree, again you use many words that can be simplified in such a manner to bring forth ones point without all the non relevant fluff. It is called effective communication. The primary Reason communcation fails. The use of non-relevant words, especially for men, only confuses them and so they listen, but do not HEAR. Men typically cannot read between the lines. you have to deliver the message directly.

One area where you are correct, when one says, we need to talk, men do run. Why, because they only want the sugar coated stuff. They don't want to deal with the adversity. One of the top 5 reasons marriages/relationships fail. Continuously, eveyone, male and female, stress the need for communication, yet you yourself confimed, males do not want to communicate unless it is what THEY want to hear. So much for communication.

Also, I deal with clients everday and can deliver a very direct message that is understood, yet not sugar coated, yet not mean either, nor doragatory.

Lastly women dont want to hear meaningless quantities of words. They see that as one talking down to them. And they seriously take acception to that.

No, men run when they hear, "We need to talk", because what it means is, "I want to dump you and I figure I'm doing you a favor telling you this instead of letting it filter through the usual gossip channels so you learn this second-hand." I was married for 12 years. When the ex wanted the garbage taken out, she'd tell me to take out the garbage. If she told me we were lost and that I needed to ask directions, she told me to turn around and ask the gas station attendent for directions. When she no longer wanted to be married to me, she said, "We need to talk."

I figure we should we agree to disagree, Elizabeth. Someone once said, people elect the governments they deserve. I think the same applies to the relationships we've had, we probably deserved more of them than we'll admit to. But thanks for your input.

Not True, what you are telling me is the way men want to side step communication. I am not stupid and I dont go by what some dating or pscho babble book says. They ar more often incorrect and realites of clearly shown that. It means the women want to have a serious, open discussion. And if you were married for 12 years you would know that. Yet, you have confirmed you listened, but did not HEAR. You words are again fluff yet non-relevant. Again just an attempt to reason and justify what is not. Sorry, my friend, my point puts forth the realities and truth of the matter, something most want to sidestep and so they will use any form of reasoning and/or justification to avoid them. Relationships fail for several reason and one of the top 5 is communicaiton, but the most prevelant, lack of True Love and Chemistry versus the perceived Love and Chemistry we live with today.

I will leave you with this,

one can slice it, dice it, argue or debate it, reason it anyway one so wants, the bottom line does not change.

***"Men typically cannot read between the lines. you have to deliver the message directly."***

Feel free to throw us all together in one gigantic blob, lol. That statement is a stereotype, just as saying no women say what they really mean. If you've had even as much as five or six relationships in your life, how can you even then say men "typically" do this, or men "typically do that?" That's still 6 out of millions and millions, and most likely those six were all out of one geographic area, where people may act or think differently than another area. I don't think it needs to be so black and white as far as speaking direct or sugarcoating everything, there's times to do one, and times to do the other. Never saying what you really mean will just lead to miscommunication all over the place, but always saying what you mean, without regard to tact, will make the relationship fail even quicker. You can say what you mean without being hurtful, and you can mean what you say without bulldozing the other person in the meantime. A relationship is about communication, but it's about caring first and foremost.

Hey, I faced up to the ex's "We need to talk" conversation and I'm ten years divorced this year because of it, which explains why she is an ex. (What you need to worry about is when you tell a guy "We need to talk" and he responds with a big grin. He figures that you just saved him the hassle of trying to figure out how to dump you first). Fluffy and non-relevent words? In my job, I have SLA's to meet and maintain so if I can solve a problem in three sentences, it's better if I resolve it in one or two so that I'm available for the next technical problem. But I don't usually get client commendations or employee of the month awards for efficiency, I get recognition because of extra effort I put into the interaction that the customer appreciates. For some odd reason, employers like it when clients submit commendations for showing concern and making an extra effort on their behalf. Go figure.

All I'm saying is, some words or phrases elicit knee-jerk responses. If you loan a friend your car and the first sentence they tell you the next day is, "The good news is that no one was seriously hurt...", you can probably expect some bad news regarding your car and that's not gender specific. If you want to talk about the state of your relationship with a guy, tell him that you want to talk about the state of your relationship with him. It might cut into his football game but if he loves you he'll listen. Telling a guy, "We need to talk" is like yelling "Bomb!" or "Duck!". It's an evisceral reaction and he may want to run just so he can get his ass to a florists and buy the appropriate flowers that just possibly might appease whatever put a burr under yours. But think what you like, as you said, "the bottom line does not change" and neither will your opinion or mine.

Anyway, the topic is actually what women don't want to hear so anyone else with any opinions?

Wo, you're fast, Cap'n. Didn't even see you there.

That is correct, the topic is What women dont want to hear. And the answer is women dont want to hear those who try to reason and or justify what is not so. Women see right through that. Which is very common. You opened the topic, well with the topic will come things you do not want to hear. Never never open the door if you are not fully prepeared to hear everything. I dont speak on opinion, I speak based on actual reality and mere simple facts base on simple human reasoning and common sense as applicable to the situation, not the LA LA Land and fantasies many live in. As I mentioned earlier, most people these days do not want to hear truth, they only want to hear sugar coated distortions of what they believe truth. If you were married for 12 years, simply you were not Paying attention to the warning signs. You listened but did not hear. Your comments clearly demonstrated that.

And captain it is true, again most do not want to hear, and their responses clearly support that. Just as yours have. So again one can slice it, dice it, argue, debate it, reason it any way they so desire, the bottom line remains the same. And nothing one says will change that.

Hey bif, I'VE got an opinion, lol several of them, actually where, oh where to start?? ;-)

Let's start with what women want...of course, this is my own personal opinion, and I won't try and speak for all women, only myself- women want someone who is respectable, to others as well as himself- level-headed, romantic at times, someone who gives and takes in a relationship, a contributor, and for me, the most important thing?

Someone who understands me, and has taken the time to get to know who I am.

Of course, I wouldn't ask for any more than what I'm willing to give, myself, in a relationship- open communication is mega important, and I have to disagree with Elizabeth, stating that men 'don't hear'- I don't even think it's so much that, although there are exceptions to the rule- but it's more the fact that men and women communicate in different ways a lot of times, and I think that sometimes men honestly don't understand, but wish to-

As for Captain not 'hearing', that's absolutely not true- he understands me better sometimes than I understand myself- and I think if you have two givers in a relationship, it will always come out ahead- what DOESN'T work, is when someone is demanding, and domineering, and insists that everything has to be their way, and is rigid and unbending, and thinks they know it all, and refuses to leave any room open for the fact that, hey- they just might NOT be right, sometimes.

Elizabeth, women don't want to hear 'reason and justification for that which is not so', they want honesty- and at times, honesty is not a pretty thing- and I don't go for 'sugarcoating' either, and Captain knows I'm just about as brutally honest as they come- and I will do so, here, as well

After reading all of your posts, you come across as someone who is about as 'soft' as a brick. You sound for all the world like an angry, demanding, 'my way or the highway' kind of women- again, no offense meant- I call it like I see (or read) it- and that's what I'm reading. You can't lump all men into one particular category, and I will be the first to admit that I have no idea what your past marriage was like- but apparently, you've formed your opinions about men in general from somewhere, and equally as apparent, it wasn't good...or even correct.

People are different and individuals, no two are the same- get the time to know them before passing such hard judgment on them.

webcam, that is what it means. women dont want to hear BS or lame excuses to put it frankly. Again many want to dance around this. I as a woman dont want to here the phoney, sugar coated garbage that many spew out. You can be direct with me, but do not feed me BS. I know the difference. I know when one is avoiding. Many times women give men clear warning signs when something is wrong. And many men would rather ignore them than confront them. End result, yhour statement 7, that last WE NEED TO TALK, because you did not pay attention and talk earlier. And any woman who says differently is a liar.

Thsi si not to say women do not do the same thing, because they do.

Women should stick to cooking and sucking shlong -- what they are good at.

OH cam, as I said, I dont sugar coat things, I am straight to the point. then there is no missunderstanding.

Elizabeth, you are obviously a person who insists on the last word, but I'll try to slip in a comment before you have the last say yet again. Your remark, "End result, yhour statement 7, that last WE NEED TO TALK, because you did not pay attention and talk earlier.", yeah, that is accurate to a point but life is not as simple as you would like to paint it and I don't like you or trust you enough to go into any further details about my own personal life. You want to disagree with what I'm saying, disagree to your heart's content. Men are stupid, men run away, yada yada yada, whatever. But if you seriously believe that my marriage was the same as your marriage, which was also his marriage and her marriage and their marriage and everyone's marriage is exactly the same-- there's no point talking to you any further. Because we're no longer discussing what women want or don't want, we're talking about your hot-button issues and that is way off topic for what should be a more informative and preferably less contentious discussion. I am truly curious what women think, including you, but I don't enjoy having you grind personal axes against my neck. Have the last say, Elizabeth, slam me however you want to slam me, and let's move on, shall we?

I am not some wimp woman and I don't dance around the topic. As I mentioned, if one cannot take the heat, dont ask the question. One will get an answer that will disturb some. This is not the magic kingdom, this is not fantasy world.

I am not insisting on the last word, I calling you on your BS repsonses. If that bothers you, oh well. I will call anyone who feeds me BS. And it is a forum, that is why we are here, or did you overlook that part. There will be continuous diologue. Lastly You interjected the other parts, you opened that door, go back and read your own posts. I only responed to them.

Oh I forgot, thanks Cap'n & Mostie for your contributions. Stinkease, were you the poot-poot guy from a few years back, stinkypinky I think?

***"This is not the magic kingdom, this is not fantasy world."***

Yes it is, and if you get the park hopper pass you can participate in ALL the forums here.

Thanks Elizabeth!

I'd stay and post but I just remembered that it's time to give blood down at the local battered women's shelter

Hi 7 I am fairly new to Mingles and just popped in to check out this forum. I would love to post my input. Your question is something I haven't much considered but now that I do think about it I would have to say this:

1. As a woman myself I DO NOT want to be spoken to as if I were a child instead of his woman although his intentions were not meant that way. I have my own thoughts, opinions and just might feel differently about things.

2. I hate when men's conversations begin, continue and end with "I". "I am.. I like.. I want.. blah blah blah" Relationships should include interests of both sexes plus it just shows how conceited the man is.

3. I don't want to have a man's attention directed another way. In public or in private places I just want a man to pay attention to me or at least listen to what I say..when I have a bad day i just want to be listened to.. not talk while my man is watching tv or checkin out other women..

Im a simple woman and I dont believe relationshops should be so difficult. As long as communication is available then your likes and dislikes shouldnt be hard to read.

thinks she'll wait until the smell of epinephrine clears from the room.

Funny .... JMHO .... the room has a feeling of testosterone induced aggressive dominance... looks around .... hmmmmm .... that's curious ....

**we probably deserved more of them than we'll admit to. But thanks for your input.***

HA, oh bif....I don't deserve a couple of relationships I can think of in particular, lol either that, or there actually IS something to karma, and I must have paid for that past life I had as Hitler, hahaha I'm sure that these two in particular were honest-to-goodness psychopaths...yeah, I read the description- fit them both to a tee, ha!

btw, welcome to both allie and elizabeth

Elizabeth, back to you I can understand that you probably have valid reasons for seeing men the way that you do- but you really do have to remember that not every man is like that, I know mine isn't- he listens...ok, well he wanders a little bit when I'm on a rant, but poor guy, who can blame him, lol the truth is, both parties have to be willing to listen, even if they don't understand- they are at least putting forth the effort- not to mention the fact that if even one of the people is selfish, then the other will definitely be miserable-

Best relationship I've ever had in my life, is the one that I have now- we are both givers, relatively selfless people but we talk all of the time too, he doesn't do awful, disrespectful things to me, and I don't do awful, disrespectful things to him, and we're both committed for the long term-

We have to remember that everyone is human, they make mistakes- just ask Capn...he made a helluva one a few years ago, lol

Love you Rick xoxo

Thanks for posting, SweetAllie, input's always welcome.

Starry, post away. Not sure what epinephrine is (I thought that was cold medicine). Testosterone induced agressive dominance? Possibly. Possibly estrogen-based also. Apparently there will be 'continuous dialogue'. Oh joy. My, that 'delete this post' button is beginning to look awfully tempting... but I'd never delete anything you post, Starry. And no offense, but I still don't quite know what you meant by yesterday's post. Are you 'fer it or agin it'?

LOL Yes I can captain, so whats your point,

And yes Cristo, you ASSumption truly indicated you are an ASSumption. You can speak out, lets see if you can take the heat. Pal.

As I mentioned before, if one decides to open a door, one better be fully prepared to what comes back.

We are all entitled to our opinions, we are all very different people brought up with different values and backgrounds. In our lives or what has been thrown our way has made us more aware of exactly what we want. Yes some of us are angry at all the bullshit that has befallen us. And some just realize that inorder to move on, we need to make peace with ourselves, in order to start fresh and have a healthy relationship.

7 a really good question....

Elizabeth, I'm only curious - do you have any idea as to what I was refering to?

yes I do cristo.... I am not some dumb blond

so you've heard that old sick and disgusting joke too?

why there are so many battered women in florida?

they just don't know when to shut the phuck up

When I first joined Mingles a "Minglette" asked me, in chat whispers: "What are you looking for? What do you want?"

I told her I was looking for someone that didn't need me.

We've been friends ever since.

so very true rollo

my mother used to tell a story about my older brother...

"He's looking for the perfect woman" she would say, "he found her once, but there was one problem - she was looking for the perfect man"

Wow, 2 bitter people. I can read between the lines. ;P

Well Cristo, when I kick your balls up your fat ass, then rip them off and shove them down your throat and watch you choke on them, you will shut up for sure.

epinephrine = adrenaline hormone ... effedrine = medicine. And I did say testosterone induced aggressive dominance for a reason that becomes more and more clear. lol

Nah Elizabeth - better profiles than yours have tried

more and more actions speak louder than words. It is good to get to be able to see how people behave, get to "know" someone by what you see written because profiles can be oh so deceiving.

Starry stop being so cryptic, I can't concentrate with kids around and it's making my brain hurt trying to keep up, lol.

captain if your not careful you will join cristo

Cristo I dont have to try you worthless pig.

Cristo did your momma ever teach you anything you slob, probably not, your picture shows it.

***"captain if your not careful you will join cristo"***

No thanks, there's two things I steer away from in my diet. Nestles and testes. Besides, something tells me you're going to have your hands full, lol.

Oh, epinephrine = adrenaline hormone. Gotcha, Starry. That explains why the last time I had a head cold, I didn't feel any better but I got my spring cleaning done, fall cleaning, got Christmas shopping done for the next three years, painted the exterior of the house, rebuilt my truck engine...

Wow, Elizabeth- your anger is really surprising, you're going off on the men in the forum in a hugely personal way, and you don't know any of them from Adam- if you're trying to find someone for 'a relationship that results in marriage', I don't think this is the way you want to go about it! Looks only go so far, and tell you what: once that nasty side shows itself, it wouldn't matter how good looking a person is, nobody except for a spineless jellyfish of a man is going to put up with it, and who wants someone like that?

Besides, let's be honest here (you said you don't like sugarcoating, and I won't...)- someone who goes off in the way you're going off, all it does is show that they have a truckdriver's language skills, along with a huge lack of self-control- and may even be up for an anger management class or two!

hmmm whats with all these guys in here,they all must know what women want,lol

captain, you forget, women can use both sides of our brain concurrently. You have not matured to that level. although I must say yours is higher than Cristo.

webcam, most of these guys in here only understand a truck drivers words. They fall short every where else. And I will repeat what I said earlier, one opens the door, you better be fully prepared as to what comes back. You may not like what it is and I am coming back on them, that includes you. So again I will say, as long as one wants to comment, it will come back on you. Balls in your court. Make your decision. I hope it is a wise one. So far most have not used the brain between their ears, yet them I can see, some are severly lacking in that area.

WOW.. this thread sure has turned..I am putting away my running shoes and lacing up the boxing gloves..LOL

You go flower! Geeeeeeeez Can we get back to the topic. No wonder your relationships have failed Elizabeth, it sounds like your one of the major problems.Attack me if you want, but you seem very bitter and angry. I tell guys what they need to hear, but im not a bitch about it. If you care about someone you tell them whats bugging you without acting that way. I will tell a guy you hurt me when you do (whatever it is they did or didnt do). I am very honest and sometimes guys dont like it but other times it helps tremendously.Im honest, but tactful its not a matter of sugar coating it, but I think about how I would want to be treated and treat them with the same respect. All men are not as horrible as you say, maybe it is just the type of men you attract. It also seems you have your mind set on how "all" men are, so any man you meet is already a bastard and in trouble. Dont speak for all women because you sure as hell dont speak for me. 7 opened this to ask for help and tips not for you to attack him, so take some midol and get over yourself.

As for Mostie and Capt I agree with so much you guys have said.

Listen to Allie's words also 7 she's right.

Oh swamper I forgot to tell you, your what women want! lol

This is not an attack on you Melissa, you have essentially agreed with me and not realize you did it, or just would not say it. In any rgard, in your own words Melissa, open and very honest and they dont like what they hear. That is what I give them and they surely dont like what I say, because the very essence of truth stikes their inner being and their only recouse is to refute it, or expose themsleves to who they really are. Basic human nature, any time one hits another with cold hard truth, they will come back with some lame justification, and continue to do it because they perceive it as a lifitng to their ego's. Unfortuantly one cannot sidestep truth with an ego. But when can defend truth with an ego, because there is nothing one can say that will change it. Regardless of how one may try, the bottom line always remains the same.

And you are incorrect Melissa most men are not bastards Initially. Those that are expose themselves. It is not hard to bring forth the true colors of another. And it can be accomplished using all the sugar and honey one has. It is all in how you deliver the message. As a woman I know you know this.

thats what i said but you seem to hate all men!

lol...well, I don't know about the ball being in my court, or 'choosing wisely'- however....I can say that I call it like I see it, and I have a tendency to be very realistic about what it is that I see in any given situation, whether it involves turning the spotlight on myself, or someone else- and one other thing I can say, and those who have known me for the roughly 9 years that I've been coming to this site, can vouch for this- I'm brutally honest.

With that said, I will continue with my opinion- the people you are stating in this particular forum who 'only understand a truck driver's words', well- I happen to know each and every one of them, cristo and bif (7) having been on this site even longer than I have been, and I'm married to Capn, so I know him particularly well- and I will tell you about Cristo and Bif- they are both even tempered, intelligent, open, honest, friendly guys- neither is a 'bastard...initially or even eventually'- my guess is, that they are a lot like most men or at least a good percentage of them- they are bastards only when provoked by a nasty, angry, bitter woman- or someone they can't believe, trust, or who is absolutely unwilling to compromise on hardass standards that they have set for the men in their life.

I agree with Michelle- you seem to hate all men, and I would guess that you would like to castrate (with a dull, rusty butterknife) each and every man you come in contact with- if you have had a shitty relationship in the past with someone who did you dirty, well- welcome to the club- we've all had relationships like that- the difference between us and you, seems to be the fact that we recognize that we can't let the past dictate the future- my suggestion to you is that you get over it- realize that 'shit happens', move on, and quit making every man you come in contact with pay for the past transgressions of someone else- otherwise, nobody will want you, except for a piece of ass- sorry to be crude, but it is what it is.

My second thought, is....wondering if you are even 'real', or if you are toy or tck come into the forums under a new guise, playing a new game-

One other thing- you said this about 7 ***If you were married for 12 years, simply you were not Paying attention to the warning signs. You listened but did not hear. Your comments clearly demonstrated that***

...In the first place, since you claim to be intelligent and looking at all sides fair and square, you should know that there are two sides to every story- 7 hasn't even given his story- yet you feel that you are knowledgeable enough about him and his marriage to make the above statement regarding it- an intelligent, well thought-out person isn't going to jump into the fray like that unless....they know whereof they speak- so this leads me to two conclusions: one, you are a pseudo intellectual, or two, you are someone else who is familiar with people on this site, and coming in pretending to be someone named Elizabeth- has to be one or the other.

May I suggest a book: "How To Win Friends and Influence People"-

For about the 50th time!!!!!!!!

If you continue to return to the well of pain you will always taste the bitterness of life.

Again, an honest post degenerates into helping folks bring up all the negativity that keeps them from persuing something better than what they left behind.

I think Bif had good intentions starting this, but it basically invites a flood of ill will. It's no wonder this site has such a low success rate.

I can sense the sexual tension here

anyone else?

anyone?

Ferris?

Bueller?

Bueller?

Actually, thank you Mostie for saying nice things about me and thanks to Rollo who is always such a class act, I wish I was more like him. I don't think it really matters what is my version of what went wrong with my marriage. What goes wrong with any marriage? But the short answer is, between the years of 1993 to 1999, I lost my older brother to congestive heart failure, my father to being 89 years old, my ex's company moved her and my daughters to a new HQ in a different city while I was in second semester at a 2 year program in Computer Systems Tech, one of my older sisters died of pulmonary thrombosis (I think), my mother died because of old age and too much stress, and my divorce got finalized. Oh and then my only other sister almost died but fortunately recovered and is still alive and well. Too long an explanation? That's still the short answer. A lot of strong marriages would have problems surviving that and mine wasn't so it didn't. Also, at the time, for a lot of this, Mingles wasn't invented yet and what internet? Hindsight is really easy in retrospect but I didn't have the resources then that are available now online. To give my ex credit, in the middle of all that happening, when is a good time to mention that she wants a divorce? There of course was no good time and I had the bomb dropped on me because she couldn't wait any longer to go on with a new life without me. You want to talk about bitter? I was a poster boy for angry. But MB makes an excellent point, in order to move on, make peace with ourselves and go forward. Keep posting if you want, Elizabeth, and go about offending or alarming as many people as possible but seriously move on with your own life. Eventually, you may be the only person still posting to a forum that no one else wants to bothered with anymore. (And note to self: NEVER EVER create another forum on what do women really want, lol).

7 It was a good forum, and an excellent question. Guys need help with understanding women just like women need help understanding men. lol dont worry about what one person says listen to the many other voices who are here to help you. MUAH!- Melissa

Ditto to what Rollo said.

Bif, your awesome.

Cristo has a great sense of humor which weeds out the decent peeps from the ones people don't want to know. Either you can roll with it or go on the attack.

Missy (((hugs))), good points but I don't think she is really hearing you.

Elizabeth, this first impression is not the one I think you wanted to make. Unless fighting is all that your into, I don't see you lasting long here. Try to take a step back and read your posts as if they were written by someone else. The anger and bitterness stands out.

Star I will out last anyone here. Believe me they will run long before I do.

*pats Elizabeth on the head* Anything you say dear...

well I think she's cute - can we keep her?

LOL sure Cristo, why not.

Only if you promise to feed her and clean up after her!

pets Star on the head, believe it Star. You will be one of the first.

no need to Star, that is your job. did you not know that.

Well....I think I'll go watch a movie with my husband- he's home every night at 5, has Saturday and Sunday off every week, and....

I have one-

*smirk*

Elizabeth, LOL is that copy cat creativity I see? Well it is the sincerest form of flattery.

LMAO, she thinks she'll out last us haha! And Star will be the first! That is the funniest shit I've ever heard thanks for the laughs Elizabeth. You really don't know these people. Its cute! - Funny women

Star baby (((HUGS)))

Elizabeth so many people you are talking to have been on here a very long time and the reason they stay on is because of friendship's. One person is not going to scare them away. There have been many before you and there will be many after you. We come on here to chat with friends not argue. You should be making friends instead of enemie's.

***"Well....I think I'll go watch a movie with my husband- he's home every night at 5, has Saturday and Sunday off every week, and...

I have one-"***

Honey, I heard what you said, I read between the lines, and I want you to know that I understand this completely. Can we go to the Magic Kingdom again tonight after the movie?

I always thought you were gay captain.... thanks for confirming that for us. Make sure you spend plenty of time with your hubby. He may get become unerved if he know you were speaking to a woman.

and captain you do not read between the lines, You keep demonstraing you are cluelss. Go back to your hubby before he gets upset with you.

hey Star, I can be catty just as you. you do not want to see my creativity, you will run for sure.

Elizabeth, thanks for the laughs. I leave you to dig your own grave...

See what you started, 7? LOL

Wow....She's been a member since 4/10/08 but has ALWAYS thought Captn was gay. Amazing what you can learn in 3 days huh? lol. I think Mostie hit the nail on the head...someone is playin games These things never end well!

I DON'T want a man who can't fit these things...

A man that has taken the time to get to know me. To know who I am inside and out.

Who treats me like a best friend, a lady, buddy, lover, companion, playmate, accomplice, and partner.

Who realizes we can learn from each other because not one of us knows it all and we never stop learning.

Who realizes that questions are the only way we'll learn.

Who has learned that when I am having a bad day I don't always want him to fix it and that's ok. He is comfortable with that.

Who knows that when I want or need help I will ask. Who has made me comfortable and trusting and open enough to ask him without reservation.

Who can have his head turned by a beautiful woman and know I will just giggle. It doesn't bother me because I know what we have.

Who knows what a lady truly is by her all around being, behavior, and actions. Not just because she says so. What it means to treat a lady like a lady. How to act like a gentleman naturally, and what it means to truly be one not just pretend.

Who knows there are things for each others eyes only, not public display.

Who sees the true and deep importance of good morals. Can see where the line is drawn.

Someone who spur of the moment can say, "let's go" pack a snack, throw the canoe in the truck take my hand and head off to swim and fish and love the day away.

Who is not out to impress for the sake of impressing.

Who knows that I am probably more impressed with coffee or a picnic and good conversation than I would with a big night out.

Who appreciated fine things but does not require them to be happy.

Who assumes I can't possibly know anything about hunting, 12 pt. 210# buck @ 15, fishing, I was nearly born with a rod and reel and was fishing the Mississippi at 2, fly fishing the trout streams by 7. Although I am not tournament material because I am too goofy sometimes, I would get serious and behave if he asked, lol Fixing my cars, I cannot rebuild my engine but did not hesitate to get grimy and work all night to replace the tranny in my van. Who would never come to help and take over a project I was working on ... all these things just because I am a woman.

Who does not expect me to have a meal ready and be dressed for dinner every night. I love it when I can. He knows I work hard and have a million things on my mind, demands too numerous to count and that sometimes I am just plain tired. On those night's he takes over or we do it together which is a wonderful way to spend time with each other.

Who can stand to be pampered and not feel less of a man. Who could handle me running a candle lit bubble bath and rather than get in with him, bathe him, wash his hair, dry him take him to a candlelit bedroom and give him a long full body massage from the top of his head to the tip of his toes while he listens to soft jazz on the stereo. Let me do these things because I love and appreciate him.

Who will make a bed in front of the fireplace and do the same for me just because.

I do not want a man who is selfish.

Who does not believe in God and Church.

Who does not believe in the absolute importance of family.

Who is not does not like cats. LOL

I guess I got lucky huh?

JMHO but I don't want a man who will hide behind a woman's profile and belittle people.

"Nah Elizabeth - better profiles than yours have tried"

lmao :P

^^^^^I don't want to ever live without him ^^^^^

"My second thought, is....wondering if you are even 'real', or if you are toy or tck come into the forums under a new guise, playing a new game-"

My thoughts exactly

There FrankenBif7stien ... I tried. I hope I did not make it worse, lol

Hey Tadertot, on topic please, lol

What's really embarrassing, is that someone who is...what, 36? 42? 45? who knows...would actually get a kick out of acting out like this, even in a somewhat anonymous forum- how absurd is that....whoever this 'elizabeth' is, and I'm sure it's not a real person, how embarrassing to be you- and of course, you know who you are- just keep your fingers crossed, definitely DON'T come in under your regular profile, because it wouldn't be the first time that a fake had posted as the fake, but was accidentally logged in under their own name-

credibility, OUT the window, hahaha

...but then again, anyone who actually HAD any credibility sure wouldn't be doing something as stupid as what elizabeth is doing, now would they?

Ah well....once a loser, always a loser!

My eyes are twinlin

My hearts all a'flutter

I's twitterpated

Mostie and Captain - what movie did you watch?

Good posts, Starry & Taders! Thanks also to Starfire, Melissa, Mostie & Cap'n, Verita, Cute, Cristo, Rollo, MB, Flower & other contributors, a lively thread to say the least.

Well...............from what all the other ladies are saying I must be really lucky. My hubby is almost perfect! Of course I carry a gun and whip and everything "we" own is in my name, so maybe that's why?

Chris, we watched 'The Mist'- lol....pretty goofy, but in a B Movie sorta way, lolit was based on a Stephen King novelette, figured you could never go wrong with Stephen King....guess I might have been wrong, LOL

I saw "Fracture" with Anthony Hopkins a few days ago... GREAT movie!

Oooohh lookie... she outlasted everyone!

What's funny is, a forum on what women want or don't want gets over 100 postings in a three day period, but a forum on what men want or don't want gets 4, lol. Nobody cares what men want! (Or what men want is so obvious that it's not worth discussing). Too bad about Elizabeth, she was cute. May take a while for the gnaw marks to fade from my arm, but cute nonetheless.

Wonders what men think women don't want, lol

Good question!

the reason in why men get 4 post to women 100 cuz we already no wat men want a big meal n a gud root! best way to mans heart but women want there emotions to b met with apprecitation for that meal they cooked and affection afta the sex is it so hard to thank us for trying to keep you happy as we dont give up wen u are not happy guys!!! we try harder, most guys give up at the first attempt or a sign that we dont lyk wat they have done we no u guys try but its not ova if we dont lyk the 1st option keep trying u will get it ryt even a candle lit dina made by some chinese resturant that u say u cooked urself... we no u didnt make it but find it adorable wen u make effort we appreciate the small things in lyf lyk saying we r beautiful or have nice eyes and honesty even if we dont lyk ur opinion we will take it into context! so test it out n c da difference be lame women find it irrasistable

I personally think that my biggest pet peeves with guys are:

Bad Manners

feely grabby..(you know, when they push that envelope trying to get laid"

When they get super attached and clingy and try to push you into a relationship

When they're looking for a mommy.

Maybe i'm alone, but i seem to run into alot of loosers that run into that category

I think women want commitment and appreciation. After 6 years, I feel I did most things right but I could not agree with her parenting idea's. I have my own business and work a lot (too much, I'm sure) and never had a problem supporting both households. I was raised in a military household and she was raised in a flower child atmosphere. I think most men want to take care of the person they are with but want it to be a choice, not a requirement. I think the most frustrating part of my previous relationship was the "you should know how I feel by now" or the more famous "if I have to tell you, it doesn't mean anything"...

Wow... my first post since 1999... talk about taking your time! lol

hey guys,,,one thing ive learned, is,,that watching,,bad boys,,,and how they operate,we guys should stop tying our selfs in knots,,trying to understand what women want,,who cares,,,do your own thing,,if girl dont like it,,,tough,,,she got legs,,she can walk away...