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1) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

2) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

3) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

4) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

5) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed;

the sanctity of Britany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

6) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

7) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

8) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

9) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans. Re-post this if you believe love makes a marriage.

Yeah, I feel better.

so i CAN get married to one of my pugs? cool! thanks frckld1.

Thanks Frckld.. That was great!

I still think that if straight people can get married and be miserable, gay people should get to also.

so if two gay guys from virginia get married, move to california, and then later get a divorce - are they still brothers?

I'm not touching this one!-----Yetttttt

^maybe so Mr. Cristo. hey, i looked up my family tree and found out that my mom and dad were the same person.

that was pretty warped Cristo.... but kind of funny anyways.

Biker, it only takes one owner to treat a puppy like it's both of their parents.

Western historians claim that the easiest way to tell if a "Brave" was gay was to check out the scalps he took.

Nearly all had "handles" on them.

gay people have the right to be happy, and as Cimmaron has stated perfectly if straight people can marry and be miserable or bad, then gays and lesbians should be allowed as well.

the problem arises from the name you give to it, i mean, a marriage or matrimony is between a woman and a man, so we should try to find a new word to describe that act, why not 'legal gay romance with right to bed each other'?

by the way, i am totally against the idea of them adopting children. just imagine a poor child at school being asked by school mates, 'hey is it true that you 'mother' is really another man?'

just one problem, kids have to be taught to hate pedro, if ya teach yer children right they will not discriminate against kids with gay parents. also, children that are raised by gay couples actually do better in life then kids raised by streight parents who pay no attention to there kids.

i see nothing wrong in gay marriage, in gays adopting, what makes them so differemt from straight people, what that they are the same sex. They are people too, and what is their a law that says gays wont make a better parent. Being gay or straight you can be a great parent or a shitty one. if two people love each other by all means get married.

As far as the gay marriage LAW is concerned, it's just a matter of tax filing status. Has nothing to do with religious implications, parenting....

Avete All !!!

Thought I'd show an interest ,seeming this topic is something I kinda am living first hand.Theres nothing wrong with gay marriages by any means ,,like Manny says ,its just 2 poeple in love enough to committ to one another and not play the field anymore.Its kinda like giving up playing sports so you can spend more time with that special person,,you can still watch it ,,just never play.

As for bringing children into the world ,,well thats pretty unlikely (being as same sexes physically cant have babies) ,,though if they could ,I for one wouldnt encoarage it. Lets face it marrage and children are things we do because we dont know any better ,,once you have done it ,,it becomes pretty eveident real fast that it aint all fun and can be back breaking work ( For anyone ,,not just gay poeple).

Its more likely in a gay persons situation that they will iether adopt or take the responsibility of there partners kids .Yes !!! not all gay poeple come out of the closest until after they have attempted to be straight and fail badly at it .

Kids wont find having gay parents a problem until they hit puberty ,,,but they will have problems during that stage wether thier parents are gay or not.They will tease one another and be completely horrid for any reasons they can think of. Wether its the colour of your skin to being really tall or having bad acne,, they are just horrid to each other through out this time ,for how ever long it takes until they find themselves and grow up. Models when intereviewed allways speak about how life was rough for them as a young person ,,LOL cough hmmm ,because they were tall or gangling thin. (( jealousy is a curse ,,and not everyone is perfect )) So in a school situation you can allways find somthing to bring someone down a peg or two.

I think ,,Marriage and children are a life test to bring out the best and worst in you ,,so you can see yourself as you really are with out all the airs and graces's we put on for society ,,and if you can find one person out there that has perfected the test ,,good for you,,but most of us struggle with it ,,its just the strength of thier Love for one another that deligates how much physical and mental abuse thier prepared to put themselves through or put thier partners through to make it work.((( In the end,, wether we managed to make it work or not ,,we came to know ourselves better through its process ,,,just like kids who survive puberty and become adults ,,what ever they turn out like,, after lifes test ,,shows how as individuals they played the game .

In all life you will have the Nice guys ,the manipulaters and the freaks ,, thats just life ,,its living with our choices and being comfortable knowing who we truelly are deep down inside that is the important part.

Marrage and children wether your gay straight or undecided ,,should come with a great big warning sign on it. Enter at your own Risk.

*smiles

Shemhamforash !!!!

SpiritRogue

It is easier to be an individual then it is to mimic others ,,That way you make the rules rather than follow them

Amen! Great post spirit!

I'd like to get a little more information about hanging around with tall people. C'mon you guys stop keeping secrets from me!!

Thank you Rogue. Posts like that give me a little more hope in the human race. MissE...you crack me up.

people are people. gay straight or closeted. As long as one is human. They need the same rights as everyone else, Marriage (Divorce). Hey Divorce attorneys are in need of more clients. Call your congress men and local senator to make your word heard.

OH please this is a bunch a garbage it's a sin to be guy only a marriage between a man and woman is only reconized in the lord's eyes. If everyone was gay the human race would vanish come on people pull your head out of the sand and get real

Did God tell you that him/herself? Or do you speak for God now?

the bible says marriage will only be reconized between a man and a woman. Here is the problem most of us americans dont wanna listen we want to disobey god. I mean f.ucking get real if everyone was gay where are more humans going to come from just answer that frckld: Damn most everyone here is in a fantasy land

Everyone isn't gay, that is a really poor argument. And depending on which church's beliefs you subscribe to, even some marriages between a man and a woman aren't 'recognized in the eyes of God'. And the 'bible' was written by man not God. And there really wasn't a need to drop the f-bomb in your response.

see there you go a lame excuse the bible was eritten by man so therefore it is not true. If you read the bible they are many places that are written in red those words were the words of the lord, and the ones not in red were written by man

I didn't say it was or was not 'true'. I said it was written by a man and not God.

ok what is your point by saying it was written by a man?

For argument's sake, I could say the whole thing is hearsay. Which doesn't make it true or untrue. It makes it a people's recording of events as they saw and interpreted them. No doubt with additions of 'guidances' that were needed in the society of that time period.

***"ok what is your point by saying it was written by a man?"***

Call me silly, but I think her point is that it was written by a man.

....just a hunch, Sherlock.

hehehe...I thought it was obvious, but hey, ya never know!

I just have a problem with the term "Marriage". I'd rather see something like "Social Contract" or something along that line. It's just the way this ole dog was raised I guess. If the union between two gay people had the chance of creating life I might give way on this, but they can't (without some stand-in).

One more thing. I'd rather that gay's referred to their partners as their SS instead of SO. I think it's more fitting to indicate that you have a Significant Same than Other.

Rollo, are you then relating the term 'marriage' only to procreation? Because if that's the case, then there are tons of man/woman partners out there that should not be considered 'married' because they can't procreate, or choose not to. I can't tell if your second part about SO/SS was 'tongue in cheek' so I'm going to leave that one alone.

Well of COURSE marriage is only for the purpose of procreation- sex is NOT supposed to be "fun"....we are to listen to the voices of our ancestors, women in long, stiff dresses buttoned up to the chin, and covering the wrists, as they whispered through tight lips on their daughter's wedding night,

"Just lie back, and think of England, dear.."

heh heh heh!

in a male/male gay marriage - who controls the remote control?

in a female/female gay marriage, I see a lot less issues - for example, the "seat" would always be down

Hey i have the best item here lets get rid of marriage all together. That way there is no confrontation.

Avete All

*smiles I definitely dont want to get into the whole God thing as that never ends well LOL but on the whole gay thing ,,we are born a sexual or perhaps bysexual ,,LOL possibly the intention of male and females fornicating was only for the perpose of breeding ,,LOL getting ya gay on was proberly pre historic birth controll ,,maybe it was prehistoric porn for newly weds to help them procreate.LOL

Havnt the time to chat right now ,,but thought Id stop by to see how things were going .

Be back another time guys !!!!

What I cant believe is that so many in the religious communities are actually idealistic enough to use those cockimame excuses to deny others the same rights they themselves have. Those are the true elitists in this country. Ironic, isn't it? That in a country which included the right to free religion, there would still be people trying to ram their own beliefs down our throats.... or should I say, up the other end?

Like I said Frk.... it's my own mind-set of what constitutes a marriage. The "ability" to procreate.

Whether couples are gay or not I still give ANYONE credit who is willing to commit to a civil union of any sort and take responsibility for it.

Like I said in my political platform. I'm Pro-everything as long as people are willing to take responsibility for their actions and do not whine to the government when their life goes down the toilet because they screwed up.

We've become a nation of "entitlements" instead of opportunities. And BO will only make it worse. The Robin Hood president!

the bible was written by man, man is the only creature on earth with the capacity to LIE

first thing to do is to avoid the word 'marriage' when talking of two men or two women being together. it is not a marriage but a legal agreement!

only a woman and a man can bring babies to this world!

the bible was a great work of fiction.

It has many stories. Lepers, courtesans, people living into their hundreds, arks and rains lasting 40 days and 40 nights, raining frogs etc.

Take each day for what you have and be thankful for it.

hotfootballer, marriage is a union and a contract between two people yes. I think it is a discrimination to allow it for only man/woman. may my neighbor do whatever he/she wishes so long as it doesn't infringe upon my own rights.

However I digress as my religious beliefs or non beliefs really have no part in this discussion. Marriage being a legal union between two parties should be open in my opinion.

Thanks for clarifying Rollo!

If people are Christian they should get married in the church quite frankly and because the law is supposed to be "just" allow for same sex marriage (seeing as how we're supposed to have a separation of church and state). I would like to point out that marriage as a contract is a recent phenomenon and one started (in England) for the purposes of (CONTROL) making people pay taxes. The End.

bumper sticker i saw today directed at anti gay people...."when do we get to vote on YOUR marriage"?

SinkyBrew: You can believe what you want and how you want nobody is passing judgement, but I know the Noah's ark is a hard thing to believe. I know there were certain animals and people that went onto the ark. The entire earth was flooded long time ago, even scientist have said there was a great flood a long time ago and that in fac t was the lord flooding the earth because people were sinning and not doing what the Holy Bible said to do. And this time it will be destroyed by fire! I mean look around, Global Warming is a sign. I am not a big christian just stating the obvious, and yes being a fag is totally wrong and un natural, Hello ladies I am single and waiting!

The bible also supports slavery.

Imsexy5 I require some tea. Don't make it too hot now.

Dizzi: Please tell me where that is at in the bible so I can go look that one up

"When a slave owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives a day or two there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner's property"

Christianity used Slavery to found America. Yay4slaves!

Slavery days are over at least for me I will never be nobody's slave. You didn't answer where thats at in the bible please asnwer the question or shutup

Technically with society today. Two women could have twice as many kids as a straight couple. Sperm donor clinics are around for a reason.

Two guys on the other hand. Ok ya, they can't get kids easily into their family (excluding adoption). Closest they could get to having a kid blood related to them, would have to be in getting a surogate.

So technically the breeding in society today can be balanced with gay/lesbian marriages.

Heck, have the gay couples donate to the sperm banks! (Doubt they will use that to put the need out for procreation, but just a thought).

As for seperation of church and state. You can have marriages done completely out of churches done by people completely religionless yet marriage is still disturbing to think of for gays. Its an age old tradition, god meant it specifically for men and women. Bla bla bla. We've all heard it for ages. Truth be told, our society is highly stubborn in their ways of thinking.

Heck, i say slap on a new term instead for marriage for EVERYONE and maybe it will die down the religious bias towards gay marriage.

imsexy5... since Dizzi hasn't supplied you with the information you requested... I thought I would provide you with a few examples from the good book to support what Dizzi stated...

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)

If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)

Cannot --awesome post!

I think that religion and marriage don't have anything to do with each other. It is just my personal opinion.

Marriage is a union between two people. I don't wee what's holy or religious about it. I don't need a piece of paper to be happy with my partner no matter what gender they may be, nor a priest to bless the union, such that it is.

Marriage doesn't have to dictate man/woman. This is why the constitution is wrong. All men are created equal. Well, bud, in this lifetime of ours, it's all people, man and woman alike.

Slinky I could not agree more!

ok then not only black people can be slaves, everyone can be a slave except the people from Israel, lol ROTFL ok! I think you got your views mixed up just a bit

If you are speaking to me.... I made no reference to who could or could not be slaves... I KNOW I NEVER made reference to any race. You asked for verification of the biblical references to slavery... which I provided....

My views are not mixed up one bit.

Slaves have been made of all walk of people IM. Children, women, men, of all races and colors etc.

frckld1 *sigh* look what you have done lol.

*hugs to you*

KJV: says in Ephesians servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto christ. I do believe this is talking about serving your lord and chapter 6 also talks about obeying your parents. This has nothing to do with people being slaves like they were 400 years ago, lol! Thats a good excuse for you racist. Nowhere in the bible do I see where it talks about blacks are slaves like Dizzi is really talking about!

Luke12:47-48: And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. I won't even continue to 48. Your words do not exactly match mine I got the KIng JAmes Version I got the truth and thats all it is to it, being a fag is wrong it's nasty and not natural, SO GET OUTTA HERE

Im... How did you come to the conclusion that I am Racist? I would really like to know. I was only providing you with excerpts from the bible that you requested from Dizzi.

I wasn't around 400 years ago... I owned no slaves! Honestly I don't see color, just as I don't see sexual orientation... I see people, and the occasional asshole.

Please. Christians used their religion to oppress Africans. The whole of America was founded on Slavery. The Bible allowed this to happen.

You're just picking and choosing the words of "god" to suit your needs.

God made Adam a helper and called woman,then the bible says a man shall leave his father and mother and be join to his wife and they shall become one flesh Genesis chapter 2 verse 21-24. God has set up principles to live by,and they are still in effect today. This is Christ's world not yours, He made you. When He brought Adam a helper her name was Eve not Steve. The devil is still out there causing all kinds of confusion and lying just like he did to Eve. Don't believe the lies of the divel !! Twisted marriage won't work because God did not set that up, the devil did,those people live for the devil and them selves not Jesus Christ,its to bad for them in the end,they will not like the final destination I can promise you that, have a good day

***"I got the KIng JAmes Version I got the truth and thats all it is to it"***

Yes, but you also got a case of dumbasa****instumpism, which mean you don't have a clue how to interpret it.

Please! "The whole of America was founded on slaves" The whole WORLD was founded on slavery using that reasoning. Slavery existed before America and after and still does. (Sudan,Asia,India.ect) IT WAS AND IS WRONG! ALWAYS! Blacks don't have the exclusive rights to the claim of being bought and sold. History is littered with white, black, red, brown and all races of slaves and slave ownership.And it was the Western Civilizations that abolished it, belatedly. "the constitution (written by slave owners, by the way"" Give me a break! I keep hearing the "First amendment and the Ninth and Forteenth invoked. What, were these written by the nonslave members of the convention? "the south wanted to keep a way of life" There would have been a Civil War without slavery. The way of life is still here. Cheap Labor!- Share Croppers, Company Store's, Irish and Chinese immigrants to build the railroads,Robber Barons, Migrant Workers, Sweatshops Overseas, Child labor. I could go on. Still not going to touch the gay marriage issue though.

There's no call for bashing nor insults.

Opinions expressed are simply, just that. Opinions.

It is my belief that the bible is a collection of stories.

I think slavery is wrong, I think censorship is wrong amongst many other things.

Until we as a people stand up and take stands nothing ever will change.

Everyone should have the right to be an equal.

The bible didn't allow anything to happen. People did. and do.

Until we the people work together to make changes, things stay the same.

Captain: Please help me I forgot you are so smart the smartest man in the world!

Clearwater: Tahnk you Thank you As you can so there is alot of confusion going on in here you couldn't have said it any better and none of these people have made me think different

ahhhhhh but you know, I'm merely expressing my opinions. I'm not trying to change anyone or make anything think different. Everyone has the right to them.

True

i5 DUDE - whaddup!

Cristo: Where have you been?

IM5 ,you are welcome,I have been on other sights and when it comes to talking about Jesus/Bible, forget it. We are in the last days,and there is a falling away from the Truth,even tho we are not completely to the end yet,read 2nd Thessaloians chapter 2,this is were I believe us to be 2nd Timothy chapter 3 verses 1-7 But know this ,that in the last days perilous times will come,for men will be lovers of themselves,lovers of money,boasters,proud,blasphemers disobedient to parents,unthankful,unholy,unloving,unforgiving,slanders,without self control,brutal,despisers of good,traitors,headstrong,haughty,lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,having a form of Godliness,but denying its power. And from such people turn away! IM5 I did not write for you ,I know you have your own Bible,but it is for the people who read this ,let them deny that this kinda stuff is going on. I do pray for them tho,but thats about all we can do ,no man will come to the Son unless the Father draws him. This will probably be my last time I'm going to quote the bible,I wish the best to you all God bless ,Clearwater

Avete All !!

Man !! cmon Sexy5 just because the Bible may or may not state marriage should be between a man and a woman ,,doesnt mean everyone has to abide by it.Marriage today is not based on Biblical traditions ,,if it was there would be no such thing as Divorce ,,Defacto relationships ,,Maitenence money ect LOL .

We live in a Modern society ,,Christians dont follow the 10 commandments any more ,,they partake of all the sins known to the Bible ,,so why the bigg speel Marraige is only for a man and a woman . Damn ,,the next thing you'll try telling me is I cant have sex until I'm married LOL.Hmmmm Does it say in the Bible anywhere ,,that so called Christians shouldnt use bad language or judge others.

Being a Non Christian ,,I reckon I can pretty much make my own rules as to who I can marry ,,and if you happen to live in a state that refuses to Marry you off to the one you love what ever sex they are ,,just schedule to do it on a months holidays in a state that will.

We are not slaves to Gods word ,,we can make our own decisions on what is right ,wrong or undecided until further notice LOL.

Cannot ,,awesome post Mate ,,,at least someone here knows what the Bible states .The King James version LOL ,,,hmmmmm yeah that version was definitely the true words of God ,(( Not that I've read it but * smiles )) I am sure nothing got lost in the many translations before they wrote that one .

Shemhamforash !!!!

SpiritRogue

The Bubble of Doubt and Falsehood is bursting and its sound is the Roar of the World.

wtf...

hi all... ok my view on this is.. does it matter if it is rght or wrong?? does any1 care if it is wrong that 2 men/women get married?? infact do people get married any more???

the word "married" to me means commiting yourself to that one person you love/respect/understand whatever you like. It is also to start a family, have kids, and a pet (your choice but no pets for me thanks)... I think the "mordern" age and society in which we live has become very sterotypical, we seem to judge a person by their race, weight, colour, status, religion blah blah blah blah.. you get what i mean i hope...soo therefore we automatically show a lack of tolerance and dis respect towards a persons opinions.

Gay Marriage in a religious point is forbidden no arguments full stop.. In every religious book, being the Bible, Qur'an, Torah etc. weather you are a christian, jew, muslim sexual intercourse with the same sex is considered a sin for obvious reasons.. HIV is one of those reasons. but hey Spirit I'll bring my popcorn when you invite me to come watch you and a mate of yours

Saying that the religious reason is only appliciable for those who follow and practise the religion in which they belong too. if you are not religious, why should religious scripture be important? do you give a damn what god says or not?

and spirit wtf does Shemhamforash mean?? im dumb prick as you know ..

peace my brothers and sisters

How did religion get into this topic????

Who the hell do you people think you are preaching your religion as being "the way"???

You are certainly the first to cry when the Islamic fundamentalists do what you're doing..

What about people that don't adhere to the bible, the koran, the torah or any of that??? And the followers of those three books believe just as fervently that their religion is more in line with God's laws then yours. And lets not even get into the differences between the Catholics, the Protestants, Baptists et.al. as to who is closer to God.

None of you have a right to subject another person to your religious interpretations. If people want to be subjected to that, they can go live in the tribal areas of Pakistan... different book, same mentality.

This isn't about religion and we have a separation of church and state in our government (and the motive of your religious posts is the reason for that)..

This is about politics and equality as a constitutional right. Plain and simple.

you just proved my point..

I make this Clear-Not taking any sides in this debate. But,"we have a separation of church and state in our government" Please tell me which document, and where the document is that has this written in it.

"in god we trust"

OHHHHHHHHHH i forgot to mention my country of origin (Turkey and not PAKISTAN) is one of the 2 secular states in the world... sooo that makes me from a country where the religion is totally seperate from poltics...

And i apologies to everyone else.. maybe I sould not have posted nything in the first place

"first thing to do is to avoid the word 'marriage' when talking of two men or two women being together. it is not a marriage but a legal agreement!" hotfootballer

legally speaking, a marriage is nothing more than a legally binding contract anyways.... its the religious community that wants to impose restrictions on it. (this sentence retracted by posting individual due to its controversial nature)

Church and State should be separated , but they're not. I wont go into my views of the bible, but what freck and spirit have both said are true. People don't have the rights they should, if we are all supposed to be equal, then why aren't we. Gay people pay taxes, follow laws just like everyone else. They should have the same rights we do. Religion should have absolutely nothing to do with it. It's not affecting these anti gay people anymore then them living together without marriage. Gays will still be together they just don't have the papers for it, So why not just let them marry.

Glad you cleared that up Turk. Although I'm guessing that if you were from the other place, and gay, that your ID might be "Taste the Packer".

J/K Yuk, yuk, yuk.

Ya know.... this whole thing becomes a mute point if gays would found their own church to "sanctify" their civil unions.

We had this conversation before in Scorp's thread on "prayer in school".

Shopstar, I'll repeat what I wrote there:

Separation of Church and State is the concept that the government doesn't tell it's people how or who to worship and religions don't tell the government how to rule. That means that "the secularity of government allows for freedom of religious exercise".

In laymen's terms, that means "what's good for the gander is good for the goose".

Thomas Jefferson believed in that concept as put forth by John Locke on religious tolerance and individual conscience.

He believed that the First Amendment, created "a wall of separation between church and state".

And that comment came about because the Danbury Baptists wanted to have an influence on how America worshipped.

Here is the copy of Jefferson's written response to them:

""Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

Even though that was written in a letter and not the Constitution, The Supreme Court has on several occasions referred to that statement as one of the underlying intentions of our founding fathers, when they crafted that document.

As far as "Marriage" being this holy, sacred and revered ground, that is reserved only for a man and woman, well it seems to me that it's become cheap under us, straight people, if it's become anything.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, their estimate for divorce rate for all marriages taking place right now, is 43%. That's down from 50% a few years ago.

Yes, marriage has become sacred ground.. for the divorce lawyers. Their the only thing about it that hasn't become cheap.

And as far as one narrow view point that I read about same sex marriage being about taxes; if we're so righteous when it comes to equality, why can't same sex couples who have been living together for years, enjoy the same tax privileges that straight couples have?

Once again, what is it about "equality for all" that people don't understand?

Jefferson is dead. We are not.

We should all be equal, and yet, we are not. Still, through the years there is segregation and discrimination. one day perhaps,things will change.

I love this, it's great.

"ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL", I guess that saying only implies if the religios nutjobs let it.

We are all created equal,thats what God said and thats they way it is! All people will have a choice to make,you can except Jesus or you don't have to, All are welcome to heaven ,but few choose to go there.

"ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL", I guess that saying only implies if the religios nutjobs let it."

Exactly my point Rep.. That's why the founding fathers wouldn't let religion play a part in the Constitution. That's why Thomas Jefferson chose the words that he used in his letter.

I could just as easily say to you that there is only one "God and Mohammed is his prophet". Accept that and be welcomed into the paradise of heaven or die as an infidel, is what a Muslim will tell you.

But, Clearwater, this discussion is about politics, not religion.

"You can kill a man but you can't kill an idea" - Medgar Evans

Jefferson maybe dead, but his ideas and the ideas of our founding fathers are not.

"The United States is recognized as the first country to completely disestablish its government from any religion in its Constitution ratified in 1791"

The Taliban's rule of Afghanistan is good example of our polar opposite.

Saudi Arabia too.

Our country was founded by the great philosophers of the time. They were Plato's, Aristotle's and Scorates's of the then modern world.

Talk about people who were "far thinking"!

Cimm, the ideas might not be dead, however, they are seriously outdated.

Okay I have read this forum and want to throw my two cents in. To those who are using the bible (which this next principal is applicable to many if not all religions of this world) the bible teaches that the greatest commandment that all people should be doing it learning how to love. There is no place for hatred or intolerance for anyone or any group or any race that are going about their own business. If we focused on feeling love toward God, ourselves, others including and all the beautiful things the world has to offer us, than we may find ourselves learning to be a kinder humanrace... but we must start with ourselves. I dont think we should find time to worry about much more than our own accountability of how well we are doing in showing love and kindness to everyone around us especially to those who are not feeling it - and showing it without rules or barriers or them needing to deserve or "qualify" for it based on what we think of them. If you are a claiming to be a Christian then you should know that the main character in the bibile is Jesus Christ and He taught that the most important and greatest thing to do in our lives is to learn how to love everyone(and he included enemies.) I don't need to concern myself with other peoples choices as long as they do not try to take away freedoms and liberties that I have and vice versa. My role and responsibilty as a human being is to focus on myself and learn how to be nice.

I raised my children in a home where they knew they were loved... and they all testify of it. When my adult children chose their lifestyles it was based on them - not me or my own personal choices. Similar to when I made choices for myself... they were based on how I felt and what I wanted. I am glad that I received support and love from people throughout my life especially when I needed it the most.

My son was beaten by a mob of older men and left laying in the street bleeding internally without any assistance - all because he was in a gay community and chose his own lifestyle. He never hurt a soul in his life. Before that happened, he received recognition many times for the honorable member of his community and all the good things he was involved in. That day he was left on the street without help from any one including the police because of their inability to be kind and loving toward ALL people. Their need to show hatred did not come from God. I think it is very clear in all religiions that the most important principal to focus on is to show love and respect and I think most religions base their foundation upon these principals.

The irony is that in order to come down with judgements against anyone - one must go against the teachings that they are holding fast and claiming that it is from God. Have we overlooked the point that religion including the Bible teaches us not to appoint ourselves as a judge.

Prostition of that ancient day was very frowned upon... but the main character of the Christian faith known as Jesus told the crowd who gathered to put a prostitue to death for her crime... he asked which one of them were sinless and let him cast the first stone. I think it is time for the world to put down their stones and learn to focus on the greatest commandment given which is to LOVE. We may find judgements diminishing and turning into kindness and as we learn that there is a reason that judgements are to be left in the hand of the only sinless person as He he instructed people who believe in him to do.

PS. Fact: Gay relationships are not posing a threat to the diminishing earth's population due to the straight relationships that keep it going. My personal choice is to be straight based on my feelings, but my children and those around have the right to their freedom and liberty to chose for THEMSELVES and learn on their own what it is that will bring them happiness or not bring them happiness... in the same way that I have and that I am still tying to learn how to do that today. My two cents worth is to learn to love... period.

Hey Slinkee,

You are making it sound like the entire Constitution is outdated.

Perhaps you would care to back that statement up?

I can only think of one idea.. and only the reason for it is outdated. "The right to bear arms" The Second Amendment

Anyway that would be the 2nd Amendment.

Great to see you around again Slinkee!!

You're looking beautiful as always.

Cimm, the constitution was written year and years ago, things were different then compared to now. Women vote. We have a black man in the oval office. I think something should be updated, yes. instead of 'all men are created equal' it needs to equate to women as well. Our world is so different that we need to make accomodations for such change.

TY I don't mind chatting controversial topics. I'm not saying toss the whole constitution out, but add addendums to it. damn i can't spell that right now. as a country we have grown and evolved so much, we need to make allowances.

I agree Slinky.

But it is the intent of that document that eventually provided for women's rights to be recognized as equal and protected. It provided for the rights of all people. Esp. the future descendants of the slaves that these men owned at the time.

And I believe that is what this thread is about.

Uh.... there are ammendments. Women vote, the slaves have been freed (which also included non-black slaves).

The problems facing this nation today is because of ALLOWANCES instead of opportunities. Handouts instead of lending a helping hand.

And it will only get worse with a President who has vowed to promote entitlements.

With prohibition this counry learned that you cannot legislate morality. Why then do they prohibit sexual deviation, drugs, prostitution and stuff political correctness down your throat?

I think that she meant the way the constitution was worded, e.g. "men" instead of "us" (j/k.. couldn't resist that).

Social Security is an entitlement program isn't it?

I keep hearing from the right, how Obama is going to take money from the rich and give it to the lazy. But no one can point out exactly how that is going to work.... what I keep hearing from the conservatives, conjures up visions of someone taking money from a person who works hard for it and gives it to im5 and says, this is for you, so you don't have to go dumpster diving as much and can spend more time on the internet.

This is another thread though.

If you start it Rollo, I'd be interested in it.

a more modern version is all I really meant. what we have is very old. It just needs redone. They've already attached restrictions to the freedom of speech. Out of morbid curiousity, I can't help but wonder what a today's world constitution would look like, you know?

^It would look like the Euro Constitution and like the Euro Constitution would not be ratified. If its not broke don't fix it!

This post has nothing to do with an opinion in support or disagreement on Gay Marriage!Cimm, I agree with most everything you say. As a Libertarian and as I have stated in another thread and post, I don't want a strong central government interfering in mine or other citizens personal affairs and lives. But the Fact remains, America was and is founded on Christian principles. And thank (?), it was not the Taliban or their principles. While Thomas Jefferson did state "separation of church and state". He said that people could worship God as they wished, free of government interference. He didn't disavow God or a higher being or government with Christian Principles. He was reafirming the First Amendment which prohibits Congress from making any law " respecting an establishment of religion" and required Congress to respect the "free exercise of faith" They couldn't say that Protestant,Methodist,Baptist ect. was the official religion. It's why the Pilgrims left England. To get away from the Church of England. He (T.J.) was afraid of the same thing I am. That the far right or the far left could pass law according to their morals only. I don't claim to know the answer and am thankful after 230+ years we kept close to the middle. But without some Moral guidence it would be out of hand. What would be acceptable and legal and what not? Justifiable murder? Rape? Slavery? Child Sex? Child Labor? Child Abuse? Wife beating? Husband Beating? Blowing up Yosimite?It sounds extreme and silly but what makes these wrong? Morals, plain and simple. And too much morality can be just as bad and harmful.------"2ND Amendment Outdated" My Oldest Daughter married and moved to Houston with her husband to a new home. I was concerned about their safety there. She told me "Don't worry Daddy, it's a gated community" I replied "Honey,Daniel Boone lived in a gated community." Outdated? The more things change, the more they stay the same!

^^^^^I forgot to include in my too long ramble that my original point was "separation of church and state" is not stated in any official government document ratified by the People or States.

alot of bible thumping going on in here..

Avete All !!!

The way I see it is ,,this is not about how much two poeple love each other and who they want to spend thier lives with ,,this is about money ,,and if it wasnt about money the government couldnt care less.

This is about money and the children involved in gay arrangements .If I die ,,my wife will want all that I have earned ,,she will want it for herself and her children ,,although her children have fathers that pay her some maintenence.I have added her name to the house I am currently paying off ,,so she will get her half of it.

But who gets the rest ,,all my super annuation .I have a bigg family ,lots of siblings ,,and though they love my wife and think shes a good person ,,when I die ,,I doubt very much that they will be happy to let all that I have earned go to her and her children ,,and the man she eventually replaces me with.

This is more prominant in male cases ,,where he has born children ,,and then found a life partner of the same sex .The x wife or partner wants to fight for the right of her children over it automnatically going to the marrital partner on death.

I can see ,,how this would be hard for any family to except .Having no children of my own ,,I have made a comfortable life and astablished a good retyrement plan .I raise children that are not mine ,,provide for them .We have been together allmost 8 years now ,, but if she dies before me .Will it be right that I automatically recieve her lifes earnings. What of her children ?.Her x partners the fathers of her children ?.She has 1 child to one man and the 2nd 2 are from the relationship previous to when I met her.If I recive all that is hers ,,and then enter another relationship with a woman with children ,and I die ,,my new wife supposedly automatically would take on my decesed wifes lifes savings ,,and they would be divided between her children,, but what of my deseased wifes children ?.

Its a complicated matter ,,and I fore one do not care for the actuall same rights as straight poeple when it comes to marriage.Sure I think gay s should have the choice to marry and be acknowledged as a married couple if thats what they want.

But for me personally ,,I like the fact that were I too have had children in my past,,they would be safe from such things.

The greed is alive and well ,,we can all see it ,,how many scammers are there on the internet ,,this is not about religion ,,or love ,,its about how the government can make some money and ease the copmplication of all the children ,,and who has what right over who ,,when death comes calling.

Have run outta time to chat ,,so have kept this very brief ,,hopefully not so brief none of you saw what point I was trying to paint.

take care all !!! and keep sharing the Love !!!

Could try and explain what Shemhamforash means Sexy5 ,,BUt then I would have to kill you.

Fair Thee Well !!!

SpiritRogue

Life has Limits Knowledge has none ,,,To use what has limits in the pursuit of what has none can only lead to unforfillment .

Oh boy is the devil in here or not! My god you people are so deceived. Wake up people you fear the bible your afraid of the truth, thats all I got for now I will be back later

You would carry a lot more weight, IM, if you hadn't already blown what little credibility you had by mouthing off to people, calling them names, and leaving little nasty posts to/about everyone all across the boards- therefore, when you turn around and try to be the 'voice of reason' by posting things about Christianity, the bible, etc., nobody listens to you, and if they do? Your words don't mean much.

Why?

Because you're seen as a total hypocrite, of the worst kind. THAT'S why.

And your feathers are soooooo easy to ruffle, hahahaha

Hiyas Mostie!

Wow getting pretty wild in here,The number one command that Jesus has out there is /You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart,with all your soul and with all your mind. Then He says the second command is ,You shall Love your neighbor as your self. He did not say love there sin/life style. Its a sad thing to hear about a boy being beaten and left on the street,do you think these men were followers of Christ? I don't think so! I do not like that kinda life style but I still have a love for that person that is[ Christ's Love], I really pray that all will come to know Gods love and except Jesus Amen. If you really want to know what God thinks about this kinda behavior read Genesis 19 verses 1-29 that was about Sodom and Gomorrah for those who don't have a bible. Here is another peace of scripture thats worth reading in this matter 2nd Peter 2 / 4-11. It was asked why queer relationships won't work? and so you are getting some feed back, there are going to be different views ,what else was expected? As far as the woman caught in adultery, that was the scribes and Pharisees testing Jesus,they were going to stone this woman to death ,that was the law back then,you see Jesus don't want us to kill all people living in sexual sin,that was what judgment they were going to pass/sentence, not eternal judgment,Christ will do that. But we can't leave out the last part of that scripture,Jesus told that woman go and sin no more! This woman needed to repent and Gods love would cover her,if a person decides to stay in sexual sin they are on there own and out of the love of God. And by the way this go's for all sex outside of a marriage ,thats right a man and woman can be found just as guilty as the adulterous woman. That should be good news for all,if there is repentance's there is forgiveness and you will find Gods love and not His wrath. I don't believe we need throw rocks at each other to voice or opinions or beliefs ,I for one am born again and I believe in Jesus Christ,but that does not make me perfect or sinless, there is no way I will be able to live up to your standards or what you to believe a christian should be living like,I would like to say ,we are all in different places in our lives and our understanding and by the grace of God we are all growing every day,may you all be filled with the Holy Spirit in Jesus name Amen. Have a good day! Clearwater

Well said Clearwater..........

Slink, ya demoness- from the looks of your profile, seems that things are going very good for you!

Share the wealth, gf- LOL

Why I don't want the religious right to make laws any more than the secular humanists. We would have stonings and "scarlet letters" ect. I'm not in line with Rush Limbaugh or Pat Robertson though they make some good points. I'm not in line with Bill Mahr or Keith Oberman though they make some good points. And I don't have my head in the sand. I listen to both sides and make up my own mind. When I first joined the mingles site there was a thread about an NBC(?) poll on removing IN GOD WE TRUST from US currency. It was overwelming in support of not removing it. This is a majority Christian Nation. But at the same time all those people are not alligned with the religious right. I'm just saying we have to have some kind of moral compass. It has to be taught, not legislated. I knew George Bush was in trouble when shortly after the 2004 Election he said " I have political capital and I'm going to spend it." Assumed he had a mandate. We don't stone people because we were taught it is wrong. Let God be the Judge. I have views but they're my views and not an agenda. I'm not Homophobic, I'm not racist, I'm not xenophobic. And the majority of the people in this country are not either. What happens when people have good intentions? A 15 year old can get an abortion with out notifying a parent in some states. But a 17 year old can't get a tatoo. A 20 year old can go to war and die for his country but cannot buy a beer. A twelve year old can buy condoms but a 17 year old cannot buy a pack of cigarettes.In some states a 15 year cannot buy a car but can be tried as an adult for certain crimes. I am a Christian. Not a great one and probably in most peoples eyes not a good one. But I don't just attend church on Easter and Christmas. Doing my type work I'm afraid not to believe. My God is a very forgiving God.--- " I have taught my children about God. But I cannot make them believe. I taught my children about the dangers of drugs and alcohol, but I can't stop them from using them. I taught my children about love, but I cannot make them love someone. I taught my children about respect, but I cannot force them to be good to others. I taught my children about tolerance, but I cannot make them not be prejudiced."--- I could go on, my point is these things have to be taught and with out a moral compass where do you start.

Capital.. I don't read the Bible that much. God doesn't write books. Man(sorry Frk)does. I don't need someones interpretation to know He exists. I saw it in the birth of my children and grandchildren. I see it on the bottom of the sea. I see it everywhere. I also believe in evolution. They fit together for me. Its a work in progress. My god loves everyone, even those who don't believe.

many posts and some people have no idea what they talk about!

simple! gays and lesbians should have the same rights, they pay taxes, they are humans, they have feelings as well so same rights for them of course.

the problem arises, and many i add that i do not like it at all when you call their 'legal romances or contracts' marriage. a marriage or matrimony is only between a woman and a man!

well i really love my dog since it was given to us at the edge of 3 days, so can i marry my dog? would it be a marriage? just wondering.............

hotfootballer your to funny,thats a good laugh ,the way the worlds. going you probably can marry your dog! Hands down thats funny,I can't wait to see your offspring tho!!! thanks for the laugh ! A+

rofl Footballer, I wondered how long that would take but had not the nerve to name it lol

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires."

Susan B. Anthony

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/19/AR2008111903141.html

who is god?

I agree with Susan, Cimm. Excellent point!

I am tired of hearing you people's garbage, your deceived!

Matthew19:4-6: Haven't you read the Scriptures? Jesus replied. "They record that from the beginning God made them male and female. And he said, This explains why a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one. Since they are no longer two but one, let no one split apart what God has joined together.

Today , many homo's want to commit to "marry" with the blessing of the church. Reasons for homosexual feelings and desires are complex and serious. Christians should not trivialize the situation or flippantly condemn the homo person. But Jesus made God's idea very plain: At creation he approved one kind of marriage bond, man to woman. These become one flesh-one before God. Lets get real here in Mingles.

i would rather wpie my ass with the bible before i read the garbage that is spewed in it.

there is no god, what is god spelled backwards. on homos getting married hell no , nothing personal against gays but it is against the law of nature. lesbians are ok but

If gays be damned by the bible and god... they be damned.

But they should atleast be able to have legal rights and equality.

Ive grown up in a mormon environment. You must love everyone and not judge anyone.

The ideas are great, but I don't see how being gay goes against loving others.

So I may be damned to hell. But I might as well show compassion for my fellow man.

imsexy5 or im5 or im an idiot with a IQ of 5 represents what I can't stand about people that present themselves as conveyors of God's word. Their so busy preaching and putting up this false image that they don't have a clue as to lies hidden within the texts of the Bible, let alone have the depth of soul to live up to it.

For example in his above post, im an idiot with an IQ of 5, writes verses from the Gospel of Matthew.

But two days ago, he wrote these fine lines (which I have cut and pasted for your reading pleasure) to a Ms.Aries when she told him he needed to find Jesus:

"tAHTS WHAT ALL BLACKS SAY BLA BLA BLA GO TO CHURCH 2 FACED NIGGAS."

And in describing Ms. Aries he wrote: "big and brown the brown is the shit b.itch LMAO" "shutup nigger"

Then this good Christian, whose preaching to all of us about living up to higher virtues wrote this to Mostie:

"I do not want Ms asshole people and mostie you keep flirting with me you know I look good and you would love to have my c.ock inside of you"

Yep, this complete fu.cking idiot is really a shining example of walking the talk.

So Clearwater, is im an idiot with an IQ of 5, what Jimmy Swaggert was referring to when he described Jim Bakker as a "cancer on the body of Christ"?

You remember that famous comment don't you, Clearwater? It was made at a sermon (not too dissimilar to the ones' you two are trying to give us here), shortly before he was caught boning a hooker.

"It is in our lives and not our words that our religion must be read."

Thomas Jefferson

CIMM: Hey stupid what I just wrote is right there in the bible plain and simple and you dont want to hear the word because you are full of the devil, so please get a life.

Hunter_rep: I will pray for you

never before have so many argued for the "rights" of absolutely nothing that effects them one iota using arguments that don't relate to the topic one bit, lol!

it makes you wonder that those who scream "NO" the loudest using the most non-sensical illogical arguments really just need to step "out of the closet"

Maybe the ones who scream the loudest, in this case, do so out of fear that is based in their own homophobia. Using Bible verse to support argue against gay rights is just crap. Personally, I prefer the gospel of Thomas. And Cim, you're right. No 'God-fearing Christian' should be talking like that to anyone. If you are going to 'spread the word', I'm sure in no version of any religious writing does it say to offend and insult those who don't agree with your interpretation of the Bible until they believe the way that you do.

I think, regardless of races n religions etc, there is nothing that a gay marriage can do to hurt you. everyone should have the same rights as the next in marriage. *shrug* I don't know why this is so offensive to some, but it seems silly to me. Now, if you don't agree or approve of such a thing, that's allright because it's your personal opinion, but I don't feel anyone has the right to tell me it's right or wrong to love someone and want to solidify that relationship. OK, it's a little more complicated, but each and everyone of us is entitled to feel the way we do, love the people we do, dress the way we do and live the way we do. It hurts nobody. Love is a silly quirky thing. Nobody is getting hurt so what's the deal?

of course love hurts nobody, and nobody is getting hurt. also to use the Bible or God against gays and lesbians is ridiculous and makes no sense.

nature says that only a male and a female can bring babies to the world, so only a woman and a man can have a relationship called 'marriage or matrimony'.

gays and lesbians may have the same relationship, living together, spending a lifetime together, loving each other, sharing the same kitchen, same living room, enjoying the same bed with lots of hours of great pleasure, even on the sofa or on a chair! but you can NOT call it 'marriage'

***"same living room, enjoying the same bed with lots of hours of great pleasure, even on the sofa or on a chair! but you can NOT call it 'marriage'"***

Maybe, maybe not. (but you probably SHOULD call a reupholsterer)

SlinkyBrew, You are either a closet Libertarian or should construct houses for a living. Because you (and Lisa also) hit the nail right on the head! With out all the bull&%#*! It is that plain and simple.

"I don't suffer from insanity; I enjoy every minute of it!"

i can see we hit alot of fire and brimstone here, lol, what ever you believe in, god, buddah, jesus, mother nature, santa claus, if two people love each other, then why not get married. everybody has the right to love someone and if they feel a piece of paper is important to them so be it. it doesn't matter if you are gay or straight, everyone should have the same rights. now if we were talking over thirty years ago some would be making a stink about dating outside your race. being in love dosent see the color of ones skin, or if they prefer the same sex, it is what is in ones heart.

Next someone will spew more brimstone on what evil it is for premarital sex...masturbation and living together.

As for my political views? lol I think the closest one can label me is a middle of the roader. I often see valid points on both sides of a coin so I don't know what you'd call that. I think there is some shreds of good and bad in everyone and silly me, I try to always look for the good. If you are happy in your lifestyle and harm no-one, so be it, carry on and be freaking happy no matter what anyone else says.

TRIVIA TIME!!!

can anyone tell me in which of the 50 states you can get married in a local church and it's recognized by the federal government?

Manhatten: You can't compare the issue with the blacks to gays. Nowhere in my bible does it say anything about being black or dating outside your race is wrong. But being gay is, look it up

im- manhatten was making a good point, 30 years ago they probably would make a big fuss about different races marrying, she's right! It is all about whats ok to certain people and whats not. The same laws apply to the gay people as they do to the straight, so they should have the same rights. And I've heard people say things about different races marrying in the bible and it not being ok. The thing is there are so many different versions of the bible, and things have been cut out and put in. Its a bunch of bullshit, man wrote it, and people choose to believe what they want out of it. Nobody knows for sure whats true, they just believe it. Just another way to control more people. Besides that it is hypocritical, you say the bible says they cant marry, and you judge them, but the bible says gods the only judge and everybody seems to be doing his job.So if your Gods the judge why not let him judge, stay out of a persons relationship that has nothing to do with you, its not hurting you, not affecting your relationship with your God. The gay people that are together now arent affecting us how will it change by marriage?

Amem Melissa, Now can we all hold hands and sing. "I love you, you love me......

Melissa: you are dead wrong, but hey I am not judging anyone, I am just stating what my bible says and my bible is the truth. Yeah man wrote it, but the bible is true it is a non-fiction book, at least mine is, it is the King James Version, and the quote I wrote in Matthew those words were spoke by the Lord, so I know for a fact that is true. So the bible is bullshit? And the reason people don't know whats true is because that is the devil's plan to create all this confusion. And yeah I will voice my opinion about gays, it's not right it says so in the bible and it affects the world. All sin does, and sin is sin rather it's gay, cheating on your wife or husband etc etc.

Some attempt to legitimize homosexuality as an acceptable alternative lifestyle. Even some christians say people have a right to choose their sexual preference. But the entire bible (both old and new testaments) calls homo behavior a sin. Here is the key point to all of it though, we must be careful, however, to condemn only the practice and not the people. Nobody should hate the person, you just hate the sin and not only gay but all sin, all sin is created equal. All of our sins can be forgiven and the chruch or anyone else has no right to judge. Please tell me where in the bible where being with another race is wrong, thank you

Some of you people think you know it all about Jesus, religion, the economy, etc etc. If you know so much when was Jesus born, and when did he die. I bet none of you self centered people can tell me, I bet a million on it

Homo behavior?

LMFAO!!!!

A million what?

Did you find a whole lot of sumpthin last time you were in a dumpster?

1. You know everyone keeps saying god this and that. Where is the bible does it specificaly say marriage and give the definition of marriage.

2. Where in the contitution does it say that the united stated of america is only christian. There are many other religions out there that do not believe in Jesus.

This is getting long eh

I cant spell

Where in the constitution does it say that the united stated of america is only christian. There are many other religions out there that do not believe in Jesus.

Hey Mike I never said that the USA is the only place in the world that is chritian, thats obviously not true, lol all the people in here have proven that

Careful ladies, if you disagree with this fine christian man?

He'll start calling you a whore!

No the Constitution doesn't say that America is only Christian. But the conservative Christian right wants to change that.

As did the Danbury Baptists.

Anyway, people can argue this until their blue in the face neither side is going to convince the other.

The bottom line is that this issue is about individual rights. It's not about religious viewpoints and it isn't being decided by a church or by people who vote based upon their religious beliefs.

It is now going before the Scales of Justice (in the state of California) and her eyes are supposed to be covered.

if she is looking at me, i think it best that her eyes are covered.

The courts the courts the courtss, bla bla bla. Hey Cimm are you some kind of judge, thats all you bring up man! We all now Jesus is the real judge, but hey all, you people are blind and all I can do is pray for you folks, god bless

Ahhhhhhhh ole'King James (bastard son of the deposed and beheaded Mary Queen of Scots and her !GASP! second husband)

best described perhaps by Sir Anthony Weldon with this somber observation:

"James I slobbered at the mouth and had favourites; he was thus a bad king"

continuing further - Sir Anthony Weldon made a more somber observation:

"He was very crafty and cunning in petty things" and Sir Weldon stated that "he believed him the very wisest fool in Christendom"

On an interesting note... the colonies of Virginia were established under King James I

(which, I suppose, explains a lot)

im5, no one can tell you when jesus was born and when he died, becuase they dont keep statistics like that on FAKE people

btw------- there is a huge chunk of time missing from 'the bible' where are Jesus's teenage and young 20's at ? a whole gap of time is missing from his life. out of all the detaily chronicalled stuff, it is odd....... that this is missing ?

apologies as unrelated to gay marriage, but i can't help inquiring.

Gay marriage, since that's what this is all about, I will throw in my two cents worth- I guess I'm old school, because I don't feel that gay marriage is right- however....I don't condemn gays at all, but if you ask me how I feel about the whole marriage thing, that's where I stand. As for gay couples being able to be put on their significant other's insurance, and things of that nature, why not? If a person lives with another, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to take care of them in that way- I just feel that the whole institution of marriage was created with a man and a woman in mind-

Avete All !!

LOL Rep your a legend ,,man you make laugh.I have never read the Bible ,,but MIke I am with you mate ,,I dont think it actually declares what a marriage is and that only men and women can partake of it,,pretty sure someone told me that somewheres.

Anyway ,,Like Cimm said this is not about the Bible .The Bible didnt invent the idea of marraige nor invent the word ,,so it isnt the legal owner of the concept.

Gays want to get married legally like everyone else so when they die they can leave all there valuables to there loving partner to thank them for the love they have shard and the life they shared ,,without some greedy family member comming along trying to rip them off and contesting the dead persons will. (( Pure and simple )).

They want legal rights like everyone else does to be human and be treated like all the rest of the humans .

And as far as the God ,Jesus thing ,,,Sexy5 have you ever read the book (( The Jesus Mysteries ))by timothy Freke & Peter Gandy .Its a good read ,,it asks the Question was Jesus the original Pagan God .Osirus Dionysus ,,son of Zeus.,,He has many names depending on what country you live in ,, Dionysus ( Greese ) Osiris ( Egypt ) Mithras (Persia ) Adonis (Syria ) Bacchus (Italy ) Attis (Asia minor ) & Jesus.

You should read it ,, awesome book .

And as far as the Bible goes and all thats written in it .

Quote : Times have changed ,Religious leaders no longer preach that all natural actions are sinful.We no longer think sex is dirty or that taking pride in ones appearence is shameful .Or wanting sometyhing someone else has is vicious.

(( relating to 10 commandments and 7 deadly sins .))Most will agree the world has changed ,but why continue top grasp at threads of a dying faith.If many religians are denying thier own scriptures because they are out of date and they are preaching the philosophies not of thier faith,,,why not call it what it is .Certainly it woould be far less hypocritical. How well the utter hypocrasy comes forth when the rightieous make a change in thier religion to keep up with mans natural change.

It has become necessary for a new religion ,based on mans natural instinsts to come forth .

Look at this world ,,Birth controll,,a disgruntled admission That sexual activity for fun is here to stay .It is supposedly the Devil that caused women to show thier legs to tintillate men ,,the same legs that now are socially exceptable to gaze apon ,,even revealed by nuns aS they shortened thier habits.

Tell Me This !!!! When a puppy reaches maturity it becomes a dog .When Ice melts it becomes water ,,When 12 months is up we get a new calender with the proper chronological name .When magic becomes scientific fact we refer to it as medicine ,,astronomy ect .When one name is no longer appropriate for a given thing it is only logical to change it to a new one which better fits the subject.

Why continue to call a religion the same name when its tenets of that religion no longer fit the original one .Or if any religion does preach the same as it allways has and the followers practise nearly none of its teachings ,,why do they continue to call themselves followers of that religion .

I have not met one ,,Christion ,,of any faith ,,that follows thier Bible completely .Not even the parts written in red ,,that were supposedly spoken by God .

So why dont they just call themselves humanists or

maybe Satanists LOL.

had to throw that in there for a laugh LOL

Take care all !!!

If there is a Omnipresent God out there ,,Then He shall know my reasons for not believing in him are Justified .

LOL a dying religion, well that is the devil's plan. God is the same yesterday, today and forever he said that. Yes the world changes but God remains the same! Yeah sex is fun as you mention but is STD's fun such as HIV, AIDS, the bird flu and so much more. Where did all these diseases come from? The lord because if you turn your back on the Lord then you shall be punised. The faith ain't dying baby, but that is the devil's plan to sucker you in. That is why I stay close to the word because if you don't your like a baby lion that stray's away from the mom and then the other hungry animals out there eats the cub, get my drift? But you never said you have read the bible so you don't know any better, I will pray for you, thats all I can do!

Hunter_rep: I didn't think anyone knew when Jesus was born, so I will tell you. Jesus was born in 6/5 and died in 30AD. Jesus begin his ministry in 26/27AD. After Jesus ascends into heaven the early church begins

Shopstar- I don't know what your talking about. I didn't say anything lovey dovey, I said that they have rights, so I don't know where you got holding hands and singing from what I said.

shopstar- I just want to make sure you don't think I meant that in a smart ass way, I was just asking. I was unsure if you were being a smart ass- lol.

IM - That's my point every religion thinks theirs is right. It's sad how religion pulls more people apart then they help.

Mostie, I won't judge you for your views, but I will say the concept of "Marriage" was created a long time ago, and I believe the basis behind marriage has evolved since then. I think Rollo makes a good point when he stated his view. Some people believe this is done for procreation, some believe this is a statement of commitment and love for each other, some believe it's a partnership only for legal purposes...etc. I'm sure the list is pretty long for why people decide to marry. I just don't understand why anyone who is not gay would be so against it. It's not their business, they obviously don't understand it, nor do they want to. I, too, think it comes down to basic human rights. I just don't feel anyone's rights should be infringed upon and I think they are entitled to all of the same rights, benefits and recognition for their commitment regardless of the gender of their partners.

IM, you're an idiot. HIV and AIDS did not come from God to punish people. Pick up a f'in science book bonehead. And for all the spewing you're doing about not judging people, which YOU ARE all over these forums, I would think long and hard about how YOU will be judged when your time comes. I wouldn't think God would take lightly that you're attempting his role.

I still firmly believe that marriage between any two consenting adults harms noone.

IF two are both of legal age, sound of mind and body, what business is it of anyone else's ? Who are 'you' to infringe on 'mine/their/anyone' else's happiness.

Now, I'm not gay, and I'm in a committed relationship with a fantastic guy, but I don't see anything wrong with two people who love each other being married. How dare I to presume it's wrong when it won't even affect my own life?

What is a god? Surely there is a big difference between the Christian God Jehovah and the Greek God Zeus. If we were talking specifically about any one of the gods ever worshipped by man, it would be a much easier question. However, thats not what we have.

We have: is there a God which can include all the gods ever worshipped, and all the gods forgotten, and all the gods never taught (for whatever reason). Thats a lot of gods, and any one of them existing would force a Yes answer to the question. But before anyone raises their hand to offer their god as the ONE god that sets the answer to positive, we must define what it means to be a god.

A god is a living being (as proscribed by the word IS in the question, as opposed to Was there ever a god).

His is very unlikely to die, although he may have been born.

A god has the ability, presumably, to create matter and energy (the universe), which he (or his ancestors) presumably did. He may or may not still have this power.

So those are the three attributes. So the question can therefore be translated to Does a being live today that possesses (or once possessed) the ability to create the universe? The answer is clear absolutely not.

Keep searching you guys and the truth will set you free,There is only one true God,and yes that is the God of the Holy bible,all of the other so called gods are fallen angles,I know you don't believe that but thats on you not me,my place in heaven is set,sealed and confirmed,but really the only reason I'm posting is because of this email I got today, have the best day you can you never know it might be your last----

The following is a poem written by Judge Roy Moore from Alabama . Judge Moore was sued by the ACLU for displaying the Ten Commandments in his courtroom foyer. He has been stripped of his judgeship and now they are trying to strip his right to practice law in Alabama !

The judge's poem sums it up quite well.

America the beautiful,

Or so you used to be.

Land of the Pilgrims' pride;

I'm glad they'll never see.

Babies piled in dumpsters,

Abortion on demand,

Oh, sweet land of liberty;

your house is on the sand.

Our children wander aimlessly

poisoned by cocaine

choosing to indulge their lusts,

when God has said abstain

From sea to shining sea,

our Nation turns away

From the teaching of God's love

and a need to always pray

We've kept God in our temples,

how callous we have grown

When earth is but His footstool,

and Heaven is His throne

We've voted in a government

that's rotting at the core,

Appointing Godless Judges;

who throw reason out the door,

Too soft to place a killer

in a well deserved tomb,

But brave enough to kill a baby

before he leaves the womb

You think that God's not angry,

That our land's a moral slum?

How much longer will He wait

Before His judgment comes?

How are we to face our God,

From Whom we cannot hide?

What then is left for us to do,

but stem this evil tide?

If we who are His children,

will humbly turn and pray;

Seek His holy face

and mend our evil way:

Then God will hear from Heaven;

and forgive us of our sins,

He'll heal our sickly land

and those who live within.

But, America the Beautiful,

If you don't - then you will see,

A sad but Holy God

withdraw His hand from Thee.

Judge Roy Moore

to me this is just plain dumb....people should be able to do whatever they want and as far as i have seen they do what they want regardless if we and the society feels its wrong... people have been told somany things not to do and almost everyday you hear that it happen again... i married outside my race and what i wasnt killed so if a guy wants to marry a guy let him and vise versa with a girl... kids will probably have a better life with them anyhow

thats so true frckld1, imsexy5 is doing all this spewwing about god but still he is swearing and talking abunch of nonsense and needs to realize that people will have their opinions regardless... stop judging people im and start by looking in a mirror at yourself...then speak again

Melissa, I wasn't offended. And I can see the confusion on your part. I agreed with your perspective 100%. To me it was the closing of the book and this thread. The "let's hold.. was a knock at Barney and how childish this can turn and will continue to. I shouldn't have put them in the same post. My Apologies to you Miss. Cristo was also correct in " so much said..."I can and will always be a "smartass". That can be an asset and a liability at the same time. I've had a habit of stirring things up all my life and probably always will. ( sending quotes at Cimm. only by Democrats and Dem. appointies to Supreme court, he would have expected it from Republicans.)Play devils advocate if you will. I have true and real beliefs but not an agenda and force them on no one else. Again this is a serious subject and not to make light of it, but really . All has been said that can be said and few are going to change their minds. And thats sad in a way. Sincere Apology Melissa my mistake!

NOW! "can we all hold hands and sing I....."

'Kumbaya my lord, kumbaya......'

http://www.hallindsey.com/ Hey you guys you might want watch this video pretty interesting stuff,check it out,have a good day!

Oh frck, not to worry- it's just my own personal take on the whole 'marriage' business- I don't have anything against gays, even though I have my own idea about whether it's 'right or wrong'- I don't know what makes people want to be with their own gender, but I think that it's personal, between themselves and their Maker- and I sure don't want to sit in judgment on anyone, and I honestly don't feel judgmental- although this can't be categorized as "gay", not by any stretch, the person I've met in my lifetime who I thought had the most absolute wonderful, funny personality, was a hermaphrodite that I went to high school with- 'she' grew up as a girl, and around 10 years after high school, reverted to a man, married the daughter of a friend of my mom's, had kids naturally- but I remember when "he" was going to go the route of being a "he", and he went to a church to talk with the minister about, what I'm sure, were conflicting feelings about it all....only to have the minister clear the church out because he felt that he might be demon possessed, and didn't want any children around when the demons were cleared-

I still have not heard a answer from the folks very knowlegable about religion.

Where is the bible does it specificaly say marriage and give the definition of marriage.

WoW, Web,thats pretty wild stuff,I have been around demon possessed people,The preacher to me sounds like he was not called to that kinda ministry{ exorcism} if he was he would of seen your friend was not possessed. Its a shame that he did something like that to anyone,but it sounds like your friend is all right now. There is a lot I would like to say about the spiritual world,please believe me we are all in a spiritual fight. There is way more going on than one might like to think.I really wish the best for all of you! May the Lord be with you.Amen

Michael you can read about the first mention of marriage in Genesis chapter 1 verses 20 -25 ,Jesus makes another reference to marriage in Luke chapter 17 verse 27. There are no scriptures that imply same sex marriage is ok in the eyes of the Lord,but there are many that say what He does think about same sex relationships/beheviuor < Sodom and Gomorrah>please if you have any more questions about the scriptures feel free to email me direct and I will do my best, and I invite all coreysmorris@gmail.com God bless you ,Clearwater

LOL Shop - ok hon no need to apologize i was just asking, and you are right. (((HUGS)))

I think you're making a HUGE assumption, Clearwater, that the people who post in here that have opposing views to yours and IM's, are all 'non-believers'. If fact, I have complete faith. I would venture to guess that many in here have faith. However, some of us just don't believe in the fire and brimstone God that you two seem to believe in. And Mostie, I wasn't worried

Mamita30: If you had been keeping up with the post you would see I stated I wasn't judging, get it right before you flap your mouth.(did you know you look like a fat ass?) You can't compare faggot relationships with blacks+whites.

frckld: How do you know that AIDS wasn't a death sentence put here by GOD, come on know everything tell me your opinion, I am waiting for your answer!

someone's stupid my'Lord... kumbaya

someone's stupid my'Lord... kumbaya

urdumb5 - how do you know your ignorance isn't a punishment laid upon you by GOD - come on know everything, tell us your opinion, we are waiting for you to post something here and prove it one more time!

." Indeed, some members of what has come to be known as the radical religious right praise God for the tragic epidemic which is claiming the lives of hundreds of thousands of human beings in every part of the world. Because HIV/AIDS was associated in the first years of the epidemic with the gay male community in the western world, many from the radical religious right have used this pandemic as a weapon to further their own homophobic agendas.

The idea that HIV/AIDS is a punishment from God is based on three faulty assumptions: that homosexual acts are sinful, that God causes suffering, and that God punishes sin with disease. These false assumptions result from a particular way of looking at society, sexuality, and how God works in the world.

Homophobia, (the unrealistic fear, hatred, and rejection of lesbians and gay men,) is based on these assumptions and the world view they reflect, and in tragic misunderstanding of the meaning of Christ. It is the responsibility of Christians to overcome this fear and misunderstanding, and to witness to God's love and grace.

Certain passages of the Bible, around which there is no debate, assure us that everyone has access to God by faith. John 3:16 teaches that whosoever believes in Christ will have eternal life. Lesbians and gay men who believe in Christ are part of the "whosoever's," as stated in John.

Not only does the Bible not condemn loving same-sex relationships, it has many positive images and references to physical intimacy and sexuality. Examples include the stories of Ruth and Naomi, David and Jonathan, and the book of The Song of Songs. Many Christians today believe that sexuality, both heterosexual and homosexual, is a good gift from God. Gay men and lesbians need to remember and to know in their hearts that sex is good. People of faith are called to celebrate and affirm the inherent goodness of sex

These are real people's lives your all talking about. Real people who have the right to choose to live the way that makes them happy. "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness". Way up the post someone mentioned a violent act against a person who is gay only because they were gay. I've waited 4 days for a "that's terrible" from all these good Christians. Or "I'm against gay marraige and or Homosexuality but that was wrong" " that should never had happened"!But all I see or read are insults and "Read the Bible". Does your Bible and God condone this. Were these good Christians? Help me out here Clearwater. Or don't you Christians read them? Just throw the Bible at them. And if that doesn't work, beat them or stone them or put them in stocks. im, don't bother, spineless! I'm looking for intelligent answers. I posted a quote a few days ago that said "All that is needed for evil to succeed is that Decent Human Beings do nothing" This (same sex-marraige) will change whether everyone gets on board or not and eventually become the norm. But like all things it will take time. God made us all and loves us all!

These are real people's lives your all talking about. Real people who have the right to choose to live the way that makes them happy. "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness". Way up the post someone mentioned a violent act against a person who is gay only because they were gay. I've waited 4 days for a "that's terrible" from all these good Christians. Or "I'm against gay marraige and or Homosexuality but that was wrong" " that should never had happened"!But all I see or read are insults and "Read the Bible". Does your Bible and God condone this. Were these good Christians? Help me out here Clearwater. Or don't you Christians read them? Just throw the Bible at them. And if that doesn't work, beat them or stone them or put them in stocks. im, don't bother, spineless! I'm looking for intelligent answers. I posted a quote a few days ago that said "All that is needed for evil to succeed is that Decent Human Beings do nothing" This (same sex-marraige) will change whether everyone gets on board or not and eventually become the norm. But like all things it will take time. God made us all and loves us all!

They are real and they are loved and they love and feel and cry and hurt in the exact same way as all humans. Life has a miraculuous way of teaching us the importand to eliminating judgements and learn that each person has the right to their own choice as long as it does not impact my choices then our energy is used better in finding "good works" to make our faith speak louder than words.

That was a great post Shopstar!

Great post!

God Created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve .Please do not forget that this is the reason why Soddon and Gomorrah was destroyed by God .I do not Care what anyone can say or do .Its not Wise

"God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve"

is it me or anyone else who is rolling on the floor laughing?

thanks for the laugh take2!

and again where in the bible is there a clear definition of the word marriage?

Genesis chapter 1 verses 20 -25 ,Jesus makes another reference to marriage in Luke chapter 17 verse 27. There are no scriptures

http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Genesis+1%3A20+-25&passage2=&passage3=&passage4=&passage5=&version1=9&version2=0&version3=0&version4=0&version5=0&Submit.x=54&Submit.y=15

Passage Genesis 1:20-25:

20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

=============================================

http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Luke+17%3A27&version1=9

Luke chapter 17 verse 27

Passage Luke 17:27:

27They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all

These are excerpts from the biblical account of Sodom and Gamorrah:

Ezekiel 16:49-50:

"Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good."

Isaiah 1:9-10

"Except the LORD of hosts had left unto us a very small remnant, we should have been as Sodom, and we should have been like unto Gomorrah. Hear the word of the LORD, ye rulers of Sodom; give ear unto the law of our God, ye people of Gomorrah."

Isaiah 1:13a:

"Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me;"

God was concerned with incense? Or was it the author, Isaiah?

Jeremiah 23:10:

"For the land is full of adulterers; for because of swearing the land mourneth; the pleasant places of the wilderness are dried up, and their course is evil, and their force is not right."

Jeremiah 23:11:

For both prophet and priest are profane; yea, in my house have I found their wickedness, saith the LORD.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I could go on posting these quotes from the Bible. But from what I have read and I believe are all of the of the quotes referencing Sodom and Gomorrah, I cannot find one reference to homosexuality.

Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed (in the bible's terms) because the people had become evil and turned away from God.

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

As far as the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, archeologists have been working in that area (a plain) since the 1920's.

In the area where Sodom and Gomorrah was said to exist, known as "The Cities of the Plain", they found a 7 foot layer of ash.

They have found evidence of bronze cities and extensive networks of tombs.

This same area lies along an active fault line and contains numerous petroleum and natural gas deposits as well as sulfur and asphalt.

From Genesis 14:10, it is evident that the valley of Siddim was full of tar pits. This tar is naturally occurring asphalt. Genesis 11:3; Exodus 2:3

It is a well-known fact that the southern end of the Dead Sea is a location for these tar pits."

It is the belief of the archeologists studying the area "these combustible materials could have been forced from the earth by subterranean pressure brought about by an earthquake resulting from the shifting of the bounding faults. If these combustibles were ignited by lightning or some other agency as they came spewing forth from the ground, it would indeed result in a holocaust such as described in Genesis 19.'"

We all know that ancient civilizations often associated natural occurring phenomena, which they could not understand (like a lunar eclipse or an earthquake) with being an act of the gods, or God.

And usually these explanations were given to pacify the fears of the people.

Something like the fiery destruction of a city would call for an explanation.

We still do that today. People want to know why Asia was hit with a tsunami, etc.

IM: You post your proof positive that HIV was put here by GOD, and I will post any number of FACTS to help rid you of your ignorance on this subject.

you waste your time frck, ingnorance can be overcome but "you can't fix stupid"

Yeah, I know Shopstar. I can't help myself. That kind of stupidity just irritates me. PARTICULARLY when people want to use God or the Bible falsely in order to support their stupidity.

in order to support their stupidity???

INDEED frck, me thinks "they" need absolutely no support at all for that!

im5 has always been a complete immature idiot in here. From day one.

And a complete waste of time.

As is Clearwater, but only because he's a zealot. No one is going to be able show him anything worth seeing that doesn't jive with HIS religious beliefs.

To my knowledge, there never has been a meeting of the minds on religion and politics.

Jefferson and others have pointed out that ones connection to God is a subjective experience. And when it becomes an experience that is, in some way, shared by others, that experience turns into a religious doctrine that eventually gets forced upon the masses.

People in Islam are just as convinced and do the same things.

Clearwater's and the im an idiot's posts are an attempt to force their Christian doctrine upon us.

Although, if you look at the way im an idiot has conducted himself here, I don't believe that one can look at Christianity as being his doctrine.

He's admitted to lying about his profile. He's not even using his own photo. That is not his photo and that is not what he looks like.

A real God fearing Christian, quoting from the Bible like that, wouldn't justify lying... not to mention 99.9% of everything else he's done in the forums or in chat.

Only a very low, sick minded person writes what im an idiot writes. He's yanking everyone's chain with all of his posts and enjoying the dialogue ensuing from it.

hahaha...I forgot I could delete them all

well Cimm,you are wrong about me ,I'm not attempting to force the bible into your understanding,thats just your opinion and judgement. I only speak from my heart when it comes to Jesus!!,Personally I really don't care what you believe, You need to get that threw your head,pal! And YOU have no idea what a true christian is, so stop talking like you do. Dude you of all people have no right to make judgments like you just did,talk about a hypocrite! Look in the mirror,what I have said up to this point can be backed up in scripture,you are just posting to hear yourself talk. I answered the question of why a queer marriage won't work. PS Jesus won't force Himself on you either,you should feel relieved by that,good luck!!

well Cimm,you are wrong about me ,I'm not attempting to force the bible into your understanding,thats just your opinion and judgement. I only speak from my heart when it comes to Jesus!!,Personally I really don't care what you believe, You need to get that threw your head,pal! And YOU have no idea what a true christian is, so stop talking like you do. Dude you of all people have no right to make judgments like you just did,talk about a hypocrite! Look in the mirror,what I have said up to this point can be backed up in scripture,you are just posting to hear yourself talk. I answered the question of why a queer marriage won't work. PS Jesus won't force Himself on you either,you should feel relieved by that,good luck!!

"And on the 200th post the Lord Frk struck down the blasphemers with an abundance of deletes. So it came to pass that they were consumed by the quicksand of their own testimony"

Rolosiah - v12.c3 Book of Shazam

"And YOU have no idea what a true christian is, so stop talking like you do"

How would you know Clearwater???

You made a comment about Sodom and Gomorrah, stating that scripture says that homosexuality had something to do with the fall of fiery demise of that city.

And backed up by scripture??? When was that scripture written? Is it the old testament or something from the Dead Sea scrolls?

It's none of those.

Well, I looked it up and there is nothing that about homosexuality having anything to do with the Biblical account of the destruction of Sodom and Gamorrah. The Bible implies that it was because the people turned away from God.

Archeologists think that it's because of the confluence of events that I posted above.

Please, show us what scripture uses the term "queer" in relationship to same sex and is directed at the biblical account of the destruction of Sodom and Gamorrah.

Then if you wouldn't mind, point out where I'm posting to hear myself talk.

As Shopstar posted above, not one of you (supposed) Christians spoke out against violence towards a fellow human being because of their sexuality. And there is a reason for that. Because you don't understand the mission of the Christ. In my opinion, you haven't demonstrated the intellectual capability to do so. You're almost right there, side by side with im5

Your use of the term "queer" shows an intolerance which is derived from ignorance and substantiates my point.

Like I said Clearwater, you're a zealot and not able to see anything that doesn't jive with your personal beliefs and rattles your insecurities.

pray not Brother Rollo for Our Lady of Frck is a loving frck who will lead us not unto Deletion, but deliver us from weevils - for she is the Topic Creator with the power and glory forever and ever........ All Men.

Yes, deliver us from deletion as deliver those who delete against us!

Sorry, I meant "and deliver us from deletion" or what Cristo said, except mine is from a different gospel.

See what I mean??

Cristo's says it one way and my gospel says it another!

But whose is more right???? And wars and persecution have been started over this very reason.

I know you're probably all tired of this but I couldn't help myself. In Genesis 2:19-25 it says how God made a partner for Adam -Eve (what Take2 was trying to say). And then in Ephesians 5:22-33 it states how wives should treat their husbands and vice versa. I believe that the assumption here is that since there are references to how one should treat one another when married (i.e. man and woman not same sex) but no reference how couples should treat each other as same sex, it is presumed to be sinful for there to be same sex. People who take the Bible literally of course and those who want to see proof of the Bible explicitly state word for word that same sex marriage is a no-no miss the point that people are saved based on faith not on intellect. In Matthew 13:10-13 Jesus gave the reason for why He spoke in parables: "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven have been given to you but not to them (11)." Having said this, my personal belief is that since I am a Christian I see it as sinful, however as it also says in the Bible (*I need to find this I don't have it now but I know it's in here, sorry) we must pray for them not condemn them.

I hope this is helpful.

"YOU have no idea what a true christian is"..... ROFLMAF

Genesis 19/1-11 this is were you will see how the Lord views same sex,or homosexual/gay/queer,all mean the same,it is also called Lasciviousness in the bible. Verse 5 says the men of that town what to know the two Angles carnally,that means they wanted to have sex with them ! I don't think man used any of these terms at the time the bible was written,I could be wrong about that I would have to do a study to make sure and I'm not going to do that,Cimm do a study on the Sodomites, I hope all of you will open your Bible's and turn to Romans Chapter 1 and read very carefully verses 18-32. This is what is going to happen to the people who chose to live this way. Cimm its good to know you have a Bible,and I do agree with on two points #1 all people have the right to live the way they chose/this is free will #2 you are right I will not agree with anyones perspective on life unless it comes from the Bible, I can't believe you guys want to water down the scriptures this much,you all know its not natural,you are just defending the right of choice,you don't have to God gives it to you freely. Have at it. You might find this interesting thou,Google- Hal Lindeys and hear what he has to say. Cristo are you off your knees yet or are you still bowing to Frck? LOL

I almost forgot, talking about lying on there profile! Cimm are you 107 years old?? HA HA HA LOL

wintermoon - "it is presumed to be".

Presumption???? I think that says it all.

I just say 107 in the vain hope that Cristo might respect someone older.

Or have sympathy for someone older....

I think focusing on increasing ones own personal happiness should be the first item on ones agenda rather than to be focusing on anyone elses. I am legal age to buy cigarettes and consume alcohol with the permission of the government - but I dont do it because I choose what I will do with or without their support or acceptance. What I am seeing in here are some folks are talking about the definition of marriage; others are expressing opinions if the Government should be in charge of the decision and others are debating what the bible is reporting and their interpretation of that and still others are debating if this is a moral issue or not. People will make their own choices and call it what they want which is only a matter of semantics. But for the love of intelligence... please, if one feels the need to quote any book, and I dont care if it is the Bible, Analects, Tripitaka, Tanach, Quran... or Peter Pan - please try to quote it correctly and in the right context! Otherwise, try stating personal opinion without the misquoted or misconstrued references.

1. God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. This argument says God will only bless marriages exactly like Adam and Eve, although God never makes that assertion in the Bible. For example, only two chapters after Adam and Eve, we discover a polygamous marriage in Genesis 4:19, on man with two women.[1]

2. Genesis 19 proves that God destroyed Sodom for the sin of homosexuality. This argument collapses when we notice that although the Bible mentions Sodom 48 times, it never mentions homosexuality in the context of any of those 48 verses.[2]

3. Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 prove that God hates the sin of homosexuality. This argument ignores the context of "thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind." The context is shrine prostitution in worship of Molech and Ashtoreth, his fertility goddess consort, Leviticus 18:3, 21-22; 20:2, 3, 4, 5, 13. [3]

4. Matthew 19:3-12 proves that God only accepts male-female marriage relationships. This argument ignores a clearly stated exception for eunuchs, to Jesus' teaching, which He makes in vs. 11-12. Jesus lists three classes of eunuchs who cannot receive His teaching about Adam and Eve marriage. The first class He mentions is 'born eunuchs,' individuals born anatomically whole, who have not been physically castrated but who are not inclined toward heterosexual marriage. [4]

5. Romans 1:26-27 proves that God prohibits all homosexual relationships. This argument ignores the historical and religious context in which Roman Christians received Paul's letter. The issue for Paul and for God was prohibiting Christians from engaging in fertility goddess worship, (Cybele), not prohibiting committed, faithful, non-cultic same sex partnerships. [5]

6. 1 Corinthians 6:9 and 1 Timothy 1:10 prove that homosexuals cannot go to heaven. This argument ignores the fact that the words malakoi and arsenokoites were never used in the first century, with the primary or exclusive meaning of homosexual. Even anti-gay scholars like Dr. Gordon Fee admit that malakoi and arsenokoites were rarely if ever used to mean homosexual in the first century. [6]

7. Jude 7 proves that God destroyed Sodom because of homosexuality. This argument dies a well-deserved death when we point out that the Greek word for "strange" flesh is heteros, from which we get our English word heterosexual. Jude says the fleshly sin committed by the men of Sodom was heterosexual sin.

Had Jude or God intended us to believe that homosexuality was the sin of Sodom, they would have used the Greek word homoios, from which we get our English word homosexual. If homoios had been used, that would have been our textual clue that the sin of Sodom was homosexuality.

To answer the question then, No, homosexuality is definitely not a sin.

***Please, show us what scripture uses the term "queer" in relationship to same sex and is directed at the biblical account of the destruction of Sodom and Gamorrah.***

Well, the term "queer" isn't used, but I think the picture is clear, here-lol:

Genesis 19:1-3: Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening as Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed down with his face to the ground. And he said, Now behold, my lords, please turn aside into your servants house, and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise early and go on your way. They said however, No, but we shall spend the night in the square. Yet he urged them strongly, so they turned aside to him and entered his house; and he prepared a feast for them, and baked unleavened bread,2 and they ate.

and the rest...

Genesis 19:4-7: Before they lay down (the two angels), the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people from every quarter; and they called to Lot and said to him, Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them. But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said, Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.

I remember reading this years and years ago- apparently, Sodom was pretty deviant (I would say gang rape is pretty deviant, lol)- and this was the one of the reasons that God was going to destroy it-

Just throwing that in, since you said you couldn't find it in the bible- it had started out with God speaking to Abraham first, and letting Sarah know that she would have a child within the year- then God told Abraham that he would destroy S and G for their wickedness, and Abraham asked if he would spare the city for 10 righteous men, etc.-

If I'm not mistaken (and I totally could be), when Lot, his wife and his daughters left the city, his wife turned to a pilar of salt when she turned to look back, which they all had been told not to do- and then the daughters, thinking that their family line would be ending since their city was destroyed, got their father drunk, slept with him, and conceived- I don't think that Lot was so much a "righteous" man, but in comparison to the kind of people he lived around, he looked pretty ok- apparently, his daughters weren't 'pretty ok' lol.

If I'm not mistaken, it seems to me that in the rest of the verse when Lot tells the men of sodom not to be wicked, that he offered up his daughters instead-

LMAO @ Rollo and Christo! Manhattan, nicely done.

Soooo......where ARE we on all of this??

"I Love you, You Love me... Kumbaya my Lord Kumba...."

Manh- your understanding of the scriptures is just that, your understanding. In a very sad way I'm happy for you.You probably think you just won some kinda battle,as does frck,well your fight is not against me it's with satan. You and I don't read the same bible. Why do you call everything an argument? I'm sorry to hear about all the anger you have inside. Webcam you are right thats what the bible says he did,and so the Lord still judge Lot as rirgteous, BUT thats Gods judgement! There was more going on back then in that testimony. and yes thats my understanding as well that city was full of sexual sin,not just homosexual. And God is the same today as He was then,all sex outside of marriage is sin,and there can also be sexual sin inside a marriage. Marriage does not open the doors to porn or swinging and what ever else you can think of. Webcam I'm also glad to hear you have a bible,do you believe those angles destroyed that city? What Christ is saying there when Shari looked back is ,Repent don't go back to that life style,. Here's the deal ,you guys are going to believe what you want no matter what any one says! So like I said before, have at it,Enjoy,Enjoy Enjoy! Manh you have opened up way to much scripture for me to address, I don't have the time and even if I did,it wouldn't matter to you. Why don't you guys start a thread and tell every one how much you love same sex marriage? Let me ask you guys this ,how many of you have asked Jesus Christ to be there Lord and Saviour? If you don't believe that Christ is the only way you can be saved,you are calling God a lier and you might as well give your bible away to some one who is looking for the truth! have a great day. Clearwater

Do I believe that the angels destroyed the city? Yeah, I believe it- along with everything else in there- but then, that's me- this is what I was raised on, and this is what I believe-

Great,web, then you know full well what Jesus has said about sexual sin. And in Romans 1/24-32 you know then- there can come a point where God will give these people over to there desires. At that point and only God knows where that is ,its over! Web I'm happy for you,that you have the courage to say you believe in Jesus and what He has said.

I'll state how I feel about things like this, but I don't want to get into things with anyone about it, and I don't want to sit in judgment on anyone for doing anything- I feel that it's between themselves and God, and I just feel bad for anyone who has major conflicting feelings about their situation-

Everyone that knows me here, knows where I stand on the bible and God so I won't go into it. I strongly identify with Clearwater for those that don't know me. Everyone I know whether Christian or not, believers or not, pretty much agrees that morals and values have and are declining in this country.......so...

In one sentence....describe where you get your guidance on your morals and values that you live your life by.....this should prove interesting because I don't know where non believers set their compass........

Even though Robb-o knows I can be a real butthead a lot of times (shuddit, robb-o..lol). when it comes to things of this nature, I'm pretty old fashioned about a lot of things-this doesn't mean I've always followed my own "inner compass", I'm human, and I screw up a lot- my moral code comes from the bible, and knowing what is right and what is wrong has been there for me since I was old enough to know what it was-always doing what I should is a different story- but then, I'm sure that's the case for all of us-

I don't think that trans-gender, homosexuality, or anything else like that is "ok"- I don't accept that it's ok, and I won't ever accept that- I don't know what makes people do those sorts of things, and I had an extremely close friend years ago who was gay, I accepted him as he was- I don't want to ever be guilty of sitting in condemnation on anybody, God knows their hearts- I know nothing- HOWEVER...this is how I feel about these things- and I feel that a lot of what 'goes on out there' has a lot to do with people wanting to do whatever it is they want to do, with no guidelines, no parameters, no limits, nobody telling them, 'hey, this isn't right'-- somewhat of a free-for-all.

Our country was founded on religious freedom- all men being created equal, etc.-the religious persecution in England was what a lot of them came here for-I feel that when a people, any people, pursue whatever they want to, and claim a right to it as a 'freedom', there's going to be a problem- there has to be a limit on what is right, and what is wrong- and a lot of people have gone way beyond the line-

Once again, this is my own personal feeling on these things- this is how I think, and what I believe in- I don't condemn anyone for doing the things that they do, outside of things that are obviously, blatantly wrong. If I know someone is gay, or whatever, I don't treat them any differently than anyone else, and I don't 'fake' it either- I look at the person, not their situation- if anything, I hurt for people that I know are hurting, and you can't not believe that a lot of these people are hurting-

"Butthead?"......LOL....funny you should mention that.......Hehehehe

You missed the part about "one sentence"......LOL

I just love the most 'righteous' of Bible thumpers who assume so much. All I can say is...WOW.

Clear is no longer with us...

I'm sure it's because we're all a bunch of sinners...

Everyone that knows me here, knows where I stand on the bible and God so I won't go into it. I strongly identify with Clearwater for those that don't know me. Everyone I know whether Christian or not, believers or not, pretty much agrees that morals and values have and are declining in this country.......so...

In one sentence....describe where you get your guidance on your morals and values that you live your life by.....this should prove interesting because I don't know where non believers set their compass...

simple robbi, i get my guidance from the family, the same way i got my morales, from my family, when we kids we did not really attend church, i have learned how to treat people and raise my kids by watching my parents. we may not have had a lot, but we had was fine by me. i hope some day when my kids are older they will learn by my example and some day say that they to had what was most important, a strong family bond and love. i have gone back to my roots, my children will be raised the way i was raised, they will be raised in campgrounds not in front of tv's and computer games. i strongly believe that a family that plays together stays together. now a days family's don't do things together, mine does. i have faith in myself and my family.

I can't believe all you faggots and lesbians are still discussing this...

(he'he'he)

Homosexuality is wrong on many level, (not just religiously). Tell me this is not a deviant scenario:

Two males have sex. One puts his pecker up the others hairy sphincter. I visualize a lot of crap at that point. Pretty damn nasty if you ask me.

Scenario #2: Two dykes decide they are horny. Ones on the rag or has a yeast infection. Again, not a pretty visual.

Gay marriage. What's next? Man and boy weddings? This crap needs to stop. A line needs to be drawn and no one allowed to cross it. Stopping gay marriages is only the beginning.

To those who have issues with those who believe in God, Jesus the Christ or the Holy Bible: You preach tolerance but you seem to have none. While you support perverse actions, you, at the same time, condemn those who support morals and conscience. The weak can easily be found in those who practice little or no restraint.

Wow this subject just keeps going on and on. I guess this is why we have courts, We have to have a few make the decision for us all instead of us all having some real knowledge and allowing whats right to be right.

Hey what up people? I'm glade to see some of you guys are standing up for the right thing. Zoin 101, man I got to say that visual makes me sick ,that is realy bad my friend,And no fric I didn't leave cause your a sinner,what you think I don't sin? I'm still in the flesh.http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1101752217&ref=profile

O by the way did you miss me?

Being gay is wrong.gays & gay supporters can make all the excuses they want but if we were meant to be gay their would only be one sex.The main reason gays & straits know being gay is wrong because you cant bump two pussy's & two cocks & have a baby.wake up dumb ass's.Your not that ignorant that you let your LUST (not love) control you are you?

Hey you guys- you have to see this ,check it out. We are headed for destruction for sure. http://www.hallindsey.com/

For those of you who support homosexuality, (calling it "normal", let me inform you that gay males have an average life expectancy of 42 years as opposed to normal males life expectancies of 75 years; 45 years for lesbians and 79 for real women.

Homosexual suicides add up to almost 50% of all suicides.

Homosexual males are the predominant child molesters, (whens the last time you heard of a Catholic priest molesting a girl?). NAMBLA is an organization for gay men who seek to have sex with young boys. I believe their "battle cry" is, "Sex before 8, before it's to late."

At any given time, 80% of homosexual males will be carrying some sort of venereal disease. The following is a list of diseases common among them:

AIDS

Syphilis

Gonorrhea

Typhoid fever (caused by ingesting human feces via anilingus)

Herpes (from fellatio)

Gay Bowel Syndrome

Hepatitis (due to ingesting feces and smearing feces on their bodies)

(According to one study, the average homosexual male has from twenty to 100 sex partners per year, with half of these encounters involving the swallowing of semen, of these encounters involving anal intercourse, and 25% involving ingested feces. The liberal networks have been telling us for decades now that we are supposed to accept this as normal, and the weak have bought into it).

And so we should support deviant sexual behavior and call it "normal"; we should bow to their desires and allow them to marry, adopt little boys, (so as they can join NAMBLA with honors)and accept the perversions that they practice as mutual to the normal male/female relationship.

I don't think so.

Hi Zion

Well, this facination some people have with the homosexual way of life (20 to 100 partners? what kind of avergae is that? Can you ask the "researchers" who mention feces 20 to 100 times in one page about a real average? you know 25 or 70 ot 99...lol)

I understand people can be opposed to gay marriage. Actually I don't see the point myself for such a union. Only thing is your post is a plaidoyer against homosexuality implying that it should be prosecuted. And that is a bit harsh isn't it? Don't wanna steve to "smear feces over your body"? well don't let him. Period.

(Oh seeing that your profile mentions you are looking for a male, maybe you should have mentioned that you support your own deviant behaviour as "normal"

With love, Michael White.

(Oh you forgot to tell us the main argument against gay marriage in Kensas: Marry fat marry family!).

What I have found interesting about this forum, is the lack of human-ness displayed by all of the so called "Christians".

My understanding of the Christ is that He came here out of compassion and introduced that into humanity.

On the cross, He had compassion for two that were crucified with Him.

And what is compassion?

For your fellow "man, compassion is an understanding of the "human condition".

Gay people have been defined by this characterized stereo type that resembles something both comedic and depraved, that is devoid of intelligence and love and is only consumed by the desire for sex with the someone of the same gender.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. I know more gay couples that have been together for over a decade than I do straight people that have been together for 5 years. And why? Because they truly love each other.

And there is no way one can speak of their promiscuity without looking at our own.

And as far as a gay person having any sort of impact on the world...

Alexander the Great was gay, as were both Leonardo da Vinci and Michelangelo.

Do you think that was what they chose to be? Do you think that they were devoid of intelligence, understanding, suffering and love?

I have yet to see anyone on this site who even remotely comes close to having the same impact on humanity and religion as those men did.

I think that if Christ came back right now, all of the so called "Christians" here would have Him put to death because their concept of His teachings is defined in their own image and not the image of the true Christ. And because of that, He would be denied and killed as a heretic. Nothing different from the first time He was here.

A 1000 years from now, people would be wearing syringes or a bullet around their necks instead of crosses to honor Him.

lol - look at the nut'jobs, ROFL!!

for all of you people that keep saying things are 'WRONG!' - well, you'd all be the FIRST to tell people that what goes on in YOUR personal life is 'NONE OF YER'FOOKIN'BIZNESS!' LOL!

Oh shoot, not me, Chris- I have a tendency to spill just about everything, ALL the time- hahaha

Ok, I haven't read through every single post because Holy cow there's a lot. First, if you're going to preach at people, make sure you know what you're preaching and leave the 4 letter explicitives and name calling out because it takes away from what you're saying and leaves you looking like an idiot. Secondly, I don't like the idea of gay marriages because of my own personal beliefs. I belive that society has tolerated more than ever should have been tolerated but people are goats and a lot of times they go with the crowd because it's the cool thing to do. Being an individualist isn't cool anymore I guess. I know the bible, I know what it states and I know the background of how it was written. I will not sit and preach at others, especially in an internet forum. But, because of my belief in what the bible says, that is why I am against same sex unions/marriages, however you want to put it. I partially think it's became such an issue for the simple fact, it's something that a lot of states don't allow and those who can't cry discrimination. Marijuana isn't legal but I don't hear pot heads crying discrimination. I know someone will say that's comparing apples to oranges, but really it's not. It's an issue because legally these people are being told no and in this free country we live in, people don't like to be told no.

After reading your post Zion, I have to wonder why it is you spend time visualizing your ideas of gay sex? Do you visualize your ideas of the heterosexual sex that your friends and/or family are having too? Or is it limited to gay sex?

Great Post Cimm, Great Post!

...,.and MartiGra, as a card carrying member of Normal, I do and have felt discriminated against for years! Thanks for mentioning it. But thats for another thread.

Cimm .Matt10/34 Do you think that I came to bring peace on earth.I did not come to bring peace but a sword.Hebrews 4/12-13 For the Word of God is living and powerful,and shaper than any two edge sword,piercieng even to the division of soul and spirit,and of joints and marrow,and is a discerner of thoughts and intents of the heart. And there is no creature hidden from His sight,but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account. God did sent his Son to die for all people who would belive in Jesus and that is His mercy and showing His Love and compassion. But this is tuff love. If you think Christ is some kinda puff ball,some kinda softy you are dead wrong!!

Cheers Cimm! LOL Chisto! I await the "card carrying member of Normal" thread Shop! LOL

oooooo I LOVE 'sword-talk!'

but - those who live by the sword are quickly killed by those of us who don't...

shop - check your card, your NORML card doesn't appear to be normal....

frck - you forgot to ask how zion "visualizes" canines, felines, bovines, equines, and of course - SHEEP (his profile changed to Kansas, lol)

Cristo you will fall under that sword! turn and repent while you still have a chance

well, as long as I fall UNDER the sword and not ON it, I don't think repenting is an issue for me

I understand most reasons that most people give for being uncomfortable with a gay lifestyle, be it their upbringing, 'moral fiber', the fact that if you're not gay you'll probably never 'get it', etc. I'm not gay, nor have I ever been gay, so I readily admit I wouldn't know the full scope of the lifestyle other than my own assumptions. But my assumptions arent followed by presumptions of deviance, promiscuity and eternal damnation any more than they would for people in a heterosexual relationship. I wonder if the preoccupation with thoughts of what is going on in the bedrooms were removed, does it make one think of the relationship in a different light?

"And there is no creature hidden from His sight,but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account. God did sent his Son to die for all people who would belive in Jesus and that is His mercy and showing His Love and compassion"

So, with this statement I read that we much each give an account of our OWN LIVES AND DECISIONS. Why do YOU, PUREWATER, feel it is your right to pass judgment and profess that God does not approve of lifestyles that do not mimic yours?

On a side note, interesting name change from 'Clearwater' to 'Purewater'.

And on an additional note, how do you know that Christo is going to fall under an sword? Did God tell you how he feels about Christo? What happens if when you get to the pearly gates, Purewater, and realize that YOU got it all wrong while you were here? Do you think God will forgive you??

No worries Christo,we are all going to bow a knee to Jesus. Ok then Christo see this I have the sword in my hand and now I just stuck it in the ground before you,tell me what are you going to do now? Are you going to pick it up and attack or are you going to come over and be on the same side I'm on? As for you Frck ,that was a week attempt to put dought in my mind,get behind me satan you only have the things of men on your mind,thats right you sound like the devil Frck. I have got so much faith it is possibale for you or anyone else to shake me from my faith in Christ. There is some thing you people don't know about me. And Fric God has told me that all people who don't believe in Jesus Christ will go into the lake of fire.What you think God don't speak Frck? Think agian!!

an = a...my bad

<Impossible> sorry for thr typeing mistake

There was no attempt to put doubt in your mind. Only trying to make you THINK about what you are saying. If my words are enough to shake your faith, I feel sorry for you. Satan?? You have GOT to be joking. I didn't say God did not 'speak'...I just asked if he told YOU Christo was going to fall on a sword.

ok, so what if a lady fell on a boner?

LOL Biker! You're shameless!

"smoke gets in my eyes" National Org. Reform Marijuana Laws

purewater, if you came at me with a sword, IN God's name or not, I'd just shoot you, lol (that's why you phuckers who "live by the sword" DIE by those of us who don't)

that's not a threat..... it's a fact of life - but the question is, why are you carrying a sword to start with? battling for God? baptist jihad?

forum-post battles? wars of words - and you're clearly unarmed

for those of you AGAINST same-sex unions, I HIGHLY suggest that you follow MY example and very simply, only have relationships with people of the opposite sex

for those of you who want to "preach the gospel" against it - learn and use ALL of the scriptures and gospel - be loving, forgiving, and leave the judging to God

SIMPLE!

Cristo I guess that means your on my side of the sword ,.and there you go Joe makeing what I said into something I didn't say or mean.SOOO what you are saying then Cristo is let them go to hell,don't worry about people and what they belive,even if you know the truth, to bad for them.

YOU are saying 'they' are going to hell, Purewater. THAT isn't necessarily God making the judgment, it's you. I agree with Christo's statement wholeheartedly "learn and use ALL of the scriptures and gospel - be loving, forgiving, and leave the judging to God." I just happen to believe that whether you're gay or straight, all HUMANS are entitled to the same rights, no matter what their sexual orientation.

Great post Cristo!

"I just happen to believe that whether you're gay or straight, all HUMANS are entitled to the same rights, no matter what their sexual orientation."

That is what our constitution is supposed to guarantee.. Equal rights for all.

The demographics on the yes vote for Prop.8 showed that the majority of those who voted for it, where African Americans and Latinos. Both groups have deep religious religious bases.

Religion should not be part of politics.

No Frirk Thats not me making that judgment,the bible speaks for it self,its God who has set the rules in stone not me.

We're not going to agree on this Purewater. Again, that's your interpretation and it's your lot to live with it, not mine.

sorry purewater, we can't be on the same "side of the sword"

that would make us gay and mean that you're a hypocrite - and I'm neither

so, we need to be on opposite teams - ALWAYS!

Well... why not throw one more wrinkle into the mix.

If you remove any sexual activity, does that still constitute the label of "gay"?

Is the total commitment and love for another person enough to be gay if it's someone of the same sex?

Fck all you want to do is argue anyway,you say your a christian but you also suport and stand by the homos ,sorry your a twisted sister. Ok Cristo, I stand on Christ side all the way ,you want to stand on the other side with satan and his fallen angles,you may start your weeping and gnashing of teeth now,you might as well get used to it..HE HE HE What was that Cristo? did you just judge me,well well well I think you did. You say I'm gay,that just go's to show how off your discernment is,but sence your in the dark I really can't expect any else out of you.HA HA HA. Hey don't think about coming to Christ ,if you do you will have to tell every one I am right and you are wrong.Have a good day!

you can sin with you mind,lusting is a sin.

Do you sin when you preach that to hurt another human being because of their sexual preferences, their race, their politics or because they perform abortions?

There are so many things 'wrong' with your post Water, that I think it's pointless to comment. Other than Twisted Sister is a band.

well no surprise to see that Zion101 is a bigot, but then again we all know damn well that Zion is also our favorite racist Buck101.

Good point Rollo. I had to double take on that for a moment. And that is exactly what I think of when I think about the whole sanctity of marriage. The primary reason, in my opinion, IS the total commitment and love for another person. I don't think about procreation within a marriage only. So this is a factor when I decide if I care about gays marrying. I also would support senior citizens marrying. They don't marry to procreate either.

yer right frckld, me and my wife had been best friends for 15 years when we got together and after 18 years of friendship we got married, mainly so we could annoy each other and it be on paper, we already had 2 kids before marriage

knock knock,anybody in there? knock knock,hummm I guess not ,sure is dark in there,maybe one day they will find the light.

Jack passes away after 90 years of living and being a good decent Human Being and the best Christian that he thought he could be, went to Heaven and was met at the gate by St. Peter. St. Peter proceded to take him on a tour inside the pearly gates. They came upon an area and Pete says " These are the Prodestants," They came upon another area and Pete says "These are the Catholics," They come upon another area and Pete says "these are Non-Believers and other good Decent Human Beings!" They come to another area and Pete whispers " These are the clearwater-purewater ect., religeous right." Jack asks Pete "Why are we whispering?" St. Peter answers "Because they think they're the only ones here!"

God loves everybody! He is not a bigot! He even created and loves YOU!

that is good shop,you even got a laugh out of me and thats hard to do. Ya I know Christ loves me,He could of easly let me go to hell about seven years ago ,but He didn't.He/Jesus is the one who set the rules.He will hold no back if they repent and turn to the Lord. There are going to be a lot of people there,but being how some poeple seem to think that gay people are going to be there,who do you think is not going to make it? By the way I believe about 80 to 90% of the human race will not make it. WOW I just believe there are a lot of decived poeple out there.

Geeez I hesitate to engage especially in the use of quotes in a forum of this manner but responses in here have enticed me to do so! Correct me if I am wrong but Christians believe everything about Jesus including what His disciples taught. One of the greatest sermons that Paul taught is found in Corinthians 13 which clearly compares the importance of the different qualities that Christians strive to possess (some verses removed due to space)

1 THOUGH I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profitesth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Christs mission was one of Love. It was so important to Him that he died for it. The Christians that I know try to focus on that.

By the way Purewater, in all due respect, are you saying that the God you believe in will loose the majority of His creations to Lucifer? Do you really believe that Lucifer the fallen star will have more power than God in the hearts of God's creations? It is my understanding that Christians believe that God is more powerful than his counterpartner? If Lucifer has the power to influence... than does not God have stronger power as to not be the "loser" of the majority of his creations?

frckld1 wrote:"After reading your post Zion, I have to wonder why it is you spend time visualizing your ideas of gay sex? Do you visualize your ideas of the heterosexual sex that your friends and/or family are having too? Or is it limited to gay sex?"

Let me explain to you dear lady that visuals are a part of all topics. This topic is not about you and your daddy - it is about the gays you support. You are welcome to do that and I will not judge you for it. But I will judge you for judging those who disagree with you. You, nor anyone else, has a right to say that I, (or those who believe as I do), are wrong, when you have NOTHING to show that you are right! You - like all liberals - judge by emotion, while those like myself judge by knowledge. You have not attempted to disprove my earlier post concerning the facts of gay suicide, pedophilia, diseases, early deaths, etc. The preponderance of the evidence is that people like yourself support immorality and PERVERSIONS, because, in your heart you are to weak to stand against it.

If there is a God named Yahweh, (and I believe there is) then it is the responsibility of all His creatures to live the lives He expects of us: If He says that homosexuality is wrong, then it is. Tell me - you supporters of filth and vileness - do you support child molesters? How about serial killers and rapist? If not, why not? These are "life styles" just as much as is a "gay life style". If Jeffery Dahmers life style was to kill, rape and eat other men/boys, then that was his "life style" and you, in your self-righteousness, should support it! After all, Dahmer had no "choice" in his "life style".

A bit on the religious side: All the morals that you live by, if you have ANY, are based on the Christian teachings of the Holy Scriptures. Without them you hypocrites would morally live as cavemen and women. You know nothing of the Bible - yet you preach against it. Some of you FOOLS, (sorry there are no italics here) in your ignorance have the audacity to say that Christianity is based on "love and compassion". That's pure crap. You see, the one known as "Jesus", (Yahshua), never taught "love and compassion" - He taught that those who fought against Him and the words of His Holy Father were doomed to slaughter. He literally took a whip to the money changers in the temple. Is that a Man of "love and compassion"?

You godless fools! I will not pray for you because I have no "love and compassion" for those who revel in ignorance. It is not my job to forgive you, for it is not upon me to forgive those who relish living in darkness.

Today you will support ass f.ckers; tomorrow you will teach your children that the adult who molested them was only living a "life style" they had no "choice" in. You sick, demented cowards.

I have not stated my personal view on the topic of homosexuality. I have stated the importance of replacing hatred and intolerance with kindness and respect. This has never meant that one must agree with another's choice but one must respect the right they have to make their choice for themselves as long as it does not impact someone elses freedoms/liberties... very similar to your views and language... I don't have to agree with it but I have to accept that you have the right to express yourself regardless of how offensive it is. I dont have to stay in your presence though... if you offend me... I block you. Similar to life... if someone offends you... walk away. Furthermore, your choice of examples in your attempt to express your opinion seem completely illogical: Two consulting people who are not taking away the free agency of any other person, are not in the ball park of a predator who victimizes a child and/or others through the use of violence to overpower their victims choice.

To clearwater/purewater("beating people who are different is a message from God" God will decide who makes it, not you, especially not I.

zion101-your an idiot!

Thank you shopstar... that was what I was trying to say to zion101... but couldn't find the right words! lol

You can't compare a gay relationship with child molestation, rape, and murderers that's the most stupid shit I have ever heard. A gay relationship is not affecting anyone outside it. It's not hurting a innocent child or any other life. It is not forcing you to participate, it is something between to grown adults, who both feel the same way to decide. You are the biggest idiot if you think that is a good comparison. I think that the people who choose that lifestyle are going to be together no matter what, you telling them they cant be married isn't going to change it, they'll still be together and so what if they want it legal, let them have it. They follow all the same rules we do, and they pay the same taxes we do.You say its not your job to forgive us, LOL.... NEWSFLASH!!!!! It is not your job to decide whats wrong or right then either! Stop being a hypocrite! You call a lot of people Godless here, but the way you talk is not the way a true god worshiping person would speak. cussing and judging, I mean I think every bible says pretty much the same thing "There is only one person who should judge and that's God himself" I feel for the people you are representing, I am sure they would be very disappointed!

zion101 wrote: blah'blah'blah'blah'blah....

he also wrote that only God (and him) can say what's "wrong" LOL!

he posts here demanding that we be like him and follow the scriptures...

but his profile... Gender:Male, Age:91, Religion:Jewish, Education:College, eight:3'0" is filled with lies

with the "standard" he sets for us here with his preaching, I'm glad for him that behind his lies, there is a forgiving God

People who have no tolerance are the reason that the Crusades and Pogroms were started...learn a lesson from history, zion-

Do NOT drink the Kool-Aid!

***"That's pure crap. You see, the one known as "Jesus", (Yahshua), never taught "love and compassion" - He taught that those who fought against Him and the words of His Holy Father were doomed to slaughter."***

I see where you're going with this. It's not like we were never told to love our neighbors, or our mothers and fathers, or those who transgress against us, like our enemies. It's not like he died for us so we could be forgiven if we desired to. No, he left us to be doomed forever. Where oh where could love and compassion have ever come into it?

In a perfect world Jeffrey Dahmer would have been a vegetarian. People from Zion would not have higher horses than the rest of us, and Marge Simpson wouldn't call the shots. It's not a perfect world, and none of us here are judge and jury over the rest. (Not even the ones with the fake profile and the free punch).

ROFL Captain and H_W!!! Cheers Millisa, Christo and Web!!

ROFL Captain and H_W!!! Cheers Millisa, Christo and Web!!

Opppps... sorry!

Zion, I'm not judging anyone on their views on this topic. To debate a topic or viewpoint opens the door to extend the thought process. It's not to 'change' an opinion or to judge. It's to promote thinking outside of ones own comfort zone. If you feel 'judged' that's your problem, not mine. I can't help how you respond to a statement typed on screen, anymore than I can help my knee-jerk reaction to people who insist that their belief of God is the only truth. As far as 'disproving' your other statements? You can do that as easily as I can, if you chose to.

Personally I could give a rats azz if two guys want to touch pee-pees or if two women want to bump whisker biscuits. I dont care so long as no one tries to get up my azz about wanting to hide my Vienna Sausage in a woman whom I wish to and she consents.

'zzzzzzzzactly!!!

Mlady- God destroyed all the people on the earth in the day of Noah because thier thoughts were evil. We don't know how many people there were but it greved God that He made the human race. Noah and his family are the only ones in heaven out of that group,there are many accounts of God destorying evil minded people in the old Test,Its not about power ,its about about free choice,God don't throw people in hell ,they freely chose to go there. And yes satan is going to have many many more follers than Jesus,Jesus even tells us the world will hate you on account of Me.and they are clearly seen on this board,all is not losed for them thou ,all they have to do is repent and turn to Jesus Christ. and you are only fooling yourself if a person say's I have a pure heart for the Lord and then go have a same sex marriage. God grace covers all but you got to want it,by His terms not yours. The Holy Bibly is his Love letter to all. Basic Instructions Before Leaveing Earth.

I remember that account Purewater... the Bible states that the people left on the earth were the residue and that Noah and his sons remained amongst them... the residue is the leftovers of those who were removed - "lifted up." Just as there is no account of the numbers that were destroyed (although there is evidence that it alluded to being a great number) = there was no account of numbers lifted up (which could have been less? same? or greater?) Regardless, I appreciate the respect you show in your response... thanks!

Cris....Zion101=buck101, our favorite racist from the past

lol rep, don't matter who it is...... when you got diarrhea like that, it all comes from an azzhol=azzhole

Hahaha...shop, "card-carrying member of normal"

Chris?! Make me laugh, damnit!

Hi H_W!

GOOD MORNING FELLOW HETERO'S!!!

(and g'morning to you too zion)

Good morning! Hi Miss EEEEEEE!

For those interested in more "Basic Instructions Before Leaveing Earth" can write Purewater at:

coreysmorris@gmail.com

or to learn more, copy & paste......

http://softballwest.com/media/main/articles/2008/10/Jesus_Loves_Softball_story.pdf

Oh that Corey -

http://www.blogger.com/profile/14267541690312197940

Corey Morris

Industry: Construction

Occupation: Heavy Equipment Operator

Location: Reno : Nevada : United States

About Me

I've been single for thirth years,pretty easy going,played 214 softball games this year,pretty much a home body type,live alone,no children,go to church a couple of times a week

Thank you guys,thats way cool,By all means if anybody would like to chat pease email me, if want' to talk my number is in the phone book or you can just ask me and I will give it to you,right on fellows have a great day Clearwater

I had a good blog going but for some reason I took it down,I have written over 1000 pages on what Christ has done in my life in the last seven years,I didn't think anyone was interested in my dairy,my intent is to publish the diary, you all would be very suprised at what has happend,go ahead let the hate mail begin.

Purewater/Clearwater... I hope that you do not get any "hate mail" because of your beliefs in the same way that I would hope that no one would receive "hate mail" for their beliefs, including those who live lifestyles of their own. This forum was not intended to start any form of "hate mail" towards anyone. The creator of this topic already stated the purpose of it, "To debate a topic or viewpoint opens the door to extend the thought process. It's not to 'change' an opinion or to judge." Learning to debate or express our thoughts with respect not "hate" is what humanity is all about.

Well Mlady maybe I should start a new thread,so all can get to know me and what I'm doing and why, I am fully prepered for any thing they can throw at me and welcome it!

A vous de choisir, Purewater.

purewater-I don't hate you either. People have different beliefs and explanations. I am a beleiver in God and have raised my children as such. But now that they are grown I let them believe and worship as they wish. I won't and don't force my beliefs on anyone. And I'm glad if you had trouble 7 years ago that finding the Lord helped you. We all sin. Its hard not to. I just have a different take on God. He's a very understanding and forgiving God, for he created us all. Like the ultimate parent. They Love their children no matter what. You have to be a parent to understand this train of thought. I didn't until I became a parent also. I'm sure there are exceptions like Idi Amin, Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot, Adolph Hitler. And I'm pretty sure the Jeff Dahmers and such. (Again I'm not a Judge, thank ***) But I'll let God be the One to decide. It's people like yourself who make it hard to keep this country on an even keel. We do need a moral compass. But (my opinion, again) it can't come from the far right or the far left. And again this IS a free country. With "Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness" for everyone. Thats the bottom line. I just get upset and bent out of shape when someone tells me I'm going to Hell because I don't beleive as they do. If your having trouble with Satan, send him to me. I'll kick his butt (not Christian like, I know) I'm not scared of him. I have God on my side. But I don't see satan everywhere I see something or someone I disagree with. You have a good day Bro!

Oui,tout a fait,gloire soit rendue a Dieu Mlady. Well thats good Shopstar,you see the Bible tells us whats going to happen to people,its not my judgment,its Jesus Christ Word,Christ is bound by His Word .What does the bible tell you what happened to those people you mentioned? The Word is what it is. For you to say you will kick satans butt is a bold thing to say,Do you think you can stand the test that Job went threw? Satan can only do what the Lord lets him do,Let me ask you this ,who are you talking to about Jesus in your life? I mean in person. If you say your not talking to anyone and you don't go to church ,you my freind and brother are no threat to satan,why would he bother you? He's got you right were he wants you. When a person stands up for Christ you will have a target on your back,go ahead bro give it a try,I won't have to send satan to you he will come and make himself know to you. But just so you know I DO NOT ASK SATAN FOR ANYTHING, he is an enemy not a friend. You sound like the Devil when you say we don't need a moral compass,go ahead tell me you support the gay life style and people living together. I'm not saying Jesus won't forgive them or He is not working in there lives,He is

purewater - as with most of the commentary in this tread, you have the RIGHT to BELIEVE in what you wish

we may agree or disagree (here) but your beliefs, as with those who choose their own sexual orientation, are 100% your right to choose and believe

(by the way, the information that was previously on your mingles profile allowed sufficient search information, I simply "googled" 'reno nv softball jesus' and was lead to that information)

cool thats what I put it up there for.my hope is to inspire people to the Lord,I do know where I'm at.if you know what I mean!

^^^^^Do you not read the posts? Or like the Bible, interpret it till it fits your beliefs. I DO GO TO CHURCH! WE DO NEED A MORAL COMPASS! I believe(pardon Cimm) this is a Christian Nation. Your Bible "tells" me nothing. It is a book written by men (sorry FRK)for mankind being interpreted by men-YOU.. I "BELIEVE" in THE BIBLE and GOD. But I don't use it to justify everything I say or do.Or condemn everything people do that I don't like. You want to, fine! But your no better or worse than everyone else! The Devil,Satan preys on people like you because your weak in your beliefs. I can stand the test Dude. Bullies never pick on strong people. Yea though I walk through the valley........

^^^"you sound like the devil" LMAO ROTF

No this is not a a christian nation alone. We are nation of many beliefs. Jewish, Muslim. Many different churchs of christianity, Santanic, and other after life beliefs too, We are nation that believes in the rights of all; not just a few.

this is directed at the two resident Bigots here. Zion101 and Purewater.............

MY GOD HAS A BIGGER DICK THEN YER GOD

rep - maybe you can answer a problematic question that's plagued christians/jews for over 2000 years.......

is your God circumcized?

Your right Michael, and (I) Thank God and all who gave their lives for that Freedom.

Ok, parishioners. We're taking up a collection.

Just click on the paypal@h_w.mail button and please be generous.

Cohiba's are getting expensive, doncha' know.

You guys are great,just keep talking,you continue to show people how lost you really are>LOL Shop you don't even know who your god is ,you say you go to church and that you need a moral compass,but you believe the bible was written by men.Then you say you believe in the bible. Why are you so angry?If you had the love of Christ in you ,YOU would want to tell people the truth.Why do you go to church?Do you just sit there in the pew and then go home?. <Rep> you sound like a little kid,my daddy can beat your daddy up,NA NA a NA Na. Christo you know better ,get your head out of your crotch. This country was founded on Christian beliefs,but I have to agree,there are all kinds of beliefs in this country now. God is on His way out,thanks to guys just like you. There will come a time and you will see for your self,but untill then just keep telling Jesus Christ to get out of your life,don't mess around, let Him now you mean business,really your man enough to tell us<> stand before Christ and tell Him how you see things,don't worry He will hear you!!Hey you guys you want to start another thread, like {Who will make it to heaven?} That should bring up some good conversation.Have a good day. Clearwater

I TRULY DID NOT KNOW THIS!!!!

LAS VEGAS CHURCHES ACCEPT GAMBLING CHIPS!!!

THIS MAY COME AS A SURPRISE TO THOSE OF YOU NOT LIVING IN LAS VEGAS , BUT THERE ARE MORE CATHOLIC CHURCHES THAN CASINOS.

NOT SURPRISINGLY, SOME WORSHIPERS AT SUNDAY SERVICES WILL GIVE CASINO CHIPS RATHER THAN CASH WHEN THE BASKET IS PASSED.

SINCE THEY GET CHIPS FROM MANY DIFFERENT CASINOS, THE CHURCHES HAVE DEVISED A METHOD TO COLLECT THE OFFERINGS.

THE CHURCHES SEND ALL THEIR COLLECTED CHIPS TO A NEARBY FRANCISCAN MONASTERY FOR SORTING AND THEN THE CHIPS ARE TAKEN TO THE CASINOS OF ORIGIN AND CASHED IN.

THIS IS DONE BY THE CHIP MONKS.

YOU DIDNT EVEN SEE IT COMING DID YOU?

GOTCHA!

Have a good day.

Purewater, bute me ya bible thumping bitch

No I would rather pray for you!

^^^you alredy made that clear, just you are going. What? You didn't stay in the chatroom. Too much sin? I don't have to testify to you. You're a nobody. The same as the rest of us. You can't even use the same profile everytime. I think your trying to convince your self. Or "impress" people. I feel sorry for YOU. I don't care about "your" interpretation of the Bible. God knows I beleive. Its non of your business what I do in MY church thank you. You would obviously dissaprove. Thats why everytown has at least 3 churches of your religion.(no Names) You can't agree on whose interpretation to listen too. I'm not an angry man. I'm one of the most laid back people you could ever meet. And I do have the LORDS LOVE in me. That's why I don't hate you. And like I said, God is not a bigot, he created you and loves you too!

No need to apologize Shop. I think I agreed, or said, that I believed the Bible to be written by men (or man) for men. If I didn't, I sure thought it

I didn't see you in there Shop or I would of said hello. I couldn't get the same handle or I would of stayed with Clearwater, There you go thinking agian,you get messed up every time. I hope your not ashamed of what you do in your church,why don't you encourage people to come to church? How do you know what our interpretation is? Its right down the line,we don't bend,it is what it is Brother. In most catholic /protestant churchs they don't preach from the bible they use a peace of paper,and they don't tell you ,YOU need to ask Jesus Christ into your life to be your Lord and saviour,HUMMM wonder why that is,Hey Shop lets pray for Hunter he's a little angry,Our Father in heaven We ask you in the name of Jesus Christ to bring Hunter to your Son ,to show Him your love and mercy,we ask you to cover him with your grace,to use poeple around him to speak to him about Your Son,I ask you to keep his children healthy and to draw his wife to the church you would have them to go. Amen

2nd Timothy 3-16 All scriture is given by inspiration of God,and is profitable,for doctrine ,for reproof,for CORRECTION,for INSTRUCTION in righteousness.I know this scriture is going to hard to believe ,but just ask Jesus to speak to you as you read,He will ,pray pray pray,He will hear you! Have a good day.

I'm ashamed that people like you call themselves Christians. "beating people is a message from God" And blowing up clinics? Where are you on that? I'M NOT ASHAMED OF MY LOVE FOR GOD! And any one is welcome in my church. Need a ride? Call me. Need a prayer or some one to pray with? Call me. All thats another thread or place.(anyplace is a good place, I know) I would trust Hunter-Rep with my children and grandchildren. He's a good person and part of the social fabric of this great country. I want you no where in close proximity to them. God loves you regardless! Every Day is a good day, thanks!

Shop - Purewater is looking to chat online - if that happens can I be a fly on the was present please - in a a private room... if you even desire to do such a thing? I would like to join both of you. I sent an IM to you waiting your response about it. lol keep me posted.

Shop -there are a lot of poeple calling themselves christians,A man that has been born agian would never blow up anything,I can't see how anyone would do that for that matter,but you got to know we are in a war,a spritual war,satan knows his time is short,so things are going to get real bad pretty soon,I won't be around to see it,I will be taken in the rapture and so will all born agian people.Regardless of what you may think,it is my hope to stir people up,to challenge them to seek the truth,Christo touched on that earlier,it is my full intent to get people reading there bibles. I've seen that most people don't believe that Jesus Christ is God,they say all kinds of things,but they won't admitt He is God,please go to the book of 1st John 4/1-4 and you see we have been given the proof we need to spot the spirit of the anti-christ, we also need to read John 1/1-14 to see that Jesus is God. Jesus has hard lines,you think He went threw that beating and the cross just to say its all right everyone can come in?Thats not what He say's in His word. I to would trust Hunter with my children if I had them,don't you want to tell hunter the truth? But I know people will come when its there time. Have a good day! Clearwater

Suicide- Gays are prone to suicide due to people usually telling them how being gay is wrong and such.

STDs- Straight Society. Straight Sex Education. Condoms? Pfft, not like we need them since we don't have to worry about pregnancy (very confused gay people).

Pedophile- Since gay is bad.. hmm.. pedophile must be at the same level. (No idea what pedophiles think)

Ive gone through each of the sins in my head... pre-marital sex, lust, etc. I can see a harmful side to each... but... I could not think of anything that makes being gay be harmful to anyone. Reproduction? So what? Adoption, Surogacy (however thats spelled), Sperm Bank.

Old issues with homosexuals isn't as bad today.

Just would be nice to have LEGAL equality.

Gays are bad, so everything having to do with gays is bad?

If were supposedly going to be condemned in the afterlife, it would be nice to not be so condemned in the current life.

Who will make it to heaven?} That should bring up some good conversation.Have a good day. Clearwater

who says there is a heaven,been there clearwater.Don't come in here an preach to us we all probaly have different forms of religion,my God is a bottle of green tea it keeps me sober today...

purewater -

why did you have tampa/st.pete (clearwater) florida listed as your location on your original profile 'clearwater' - the profile you removed and changed to 'purewater' in the middle of this thread?

originally, I thought you simply moved and hence the change since the photo and narrative in your profile about softball, Jesus, and church was the same as the one you use now with Reno, NV as your current location

cristo - he changed his profile b/c he was born again, and again, and again... =).

cimm - great post on 11/29/2008 @ 4:14:18 am

i was trying to stay away from this thread b/c i didnt want to get preachy or misunderstood etc... i was practically born and raised in a strict pentacostal environment (wearing dresses to your ankles and showing no skin). however, i have a whatever "float your boat" attitude towards gay marriage b/c i personally love women & men...fyi!

prop 8 here in california was a ballot proposition that would changed the state of California Constitution to restrict the definition of marriage to a union between a man and a woman and eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry. However, this proposition does not affect 'domestic partnerships' in California.

cimm --as a woman of color (although i voted against the proposition for my own reasons -but yes women of color were the primary groups that voted yes on prop 8) -my issue with this particular ballot was not same sex marriages, it was the fact that if a church would refuse to marry a same sex couple, that church could be sued and potentially lose their 501(c)(3) status. i just didnt think that was fair for those churches to have same sex marriages imposed on them... had prop 8 not have those possible rights infringements upon churches etc... the no on prop 8 campaign would've indeed won. then again if i am not mistaken, same sex marriages ballot havent passed atleast twice in the state of california.

shop - i love your responses, you are soo cute!

cristo - you should have your own hbo special, you are funny & witty! referring to: "purewater, if you came at me with a sword, IN God's name or not, I'd just shoot you, lol (that's why you phuckers who "live by the sword" DIE by those of us who don't)" --CLASSIC!!!

*on a side note, whoever referenced hal lindsey oughta be shot! and yes, IMHO, dont drink the kool aid!!!

***"A man that has been born again would never blow up anything"***

Hmmm....just wondering PureClearWater, have you ever heard of Timothy McVeigh? He was a devout Roman Catholic for most of his life. I think the people in Oklahoma might disagree with your statement jusssttttt a tad.

Christo,first I never posted I was from anywhere in Florida,second the reason I droped off this sight was because I felt it was a waste of my time,but then I read a few posts after I left and decided to come back. I tryed to get Cleaterback but was told it was taken,in fact I had to use my other email address to get back on this sight. I'm not trying to hide anything, really you think I am,lets see from Clearwater to Purewater ya right,it would take wize kid to figure that out. Webcam- have you done any research on the Roman Catholic church?I think you will find it interesting A devout Roman Cathlic follower bows down to Mary,the woman who had Jesus,they pray to her,they treat her as she is some kinda devine being,she is not! She was a woman just like you that God chose to use for His purpose. She is not to be prayed to,this is putting another God before you. The Roman Catholic church has misslead a lot of people and continue to do so today.Do you think priest who molest little boys are born again? Just because a man weres a black rope or some other color does not mean he is born again and saved,just because a person goes to church does not mean he or she is saved, you shall know them by there fruits,Please read Matt.3/4-10 this is talking about religious rulers, also please read Matt,7/13-29. You can see from these passages not everyone who says they beleive in God is born agian. Tim McVeigh is a good example of this,suicide bombers believe in there god Ala,they do not display the friut of Christ. There is one religion out there that believes God is a female and they will try and get you to give your life to her. Google mother Mary and you will see what I'm talking about. Ms Aries,be carefull with them Pentecostal churches,some of them got people rolling around on the floors,thier hollering and making all kinds of weird noises and sat they are speaking in tongues,there are outbreaks of laughter,people stand in the middle of thiere service's and saying thus says the Lord and proclaim God just gave them an oracal.I hope you have fond a new church home? Remember Jesus is a God of order. Have a good day. Purewater

Hey, Father Guido Sarducci "weres a black rope" and spent the past thirty years living and working in the United States as gossip columnist and rock critic for the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano.

Recently, he was also appointed Assistant Managing Editor for the Vatican Inquirer.

Father Guido inpires me and is my moral compass.

clearh20 - i dont go to church... im a big azz sinner!

whaddevah' you say "clearwater"

your previous "clearwater" profile listed your location as tampa/st.pete - I remember 'cuz I thought maybe you were from Clearwater, FL (next to tampa/st.pete) and it would be cool to have a screen-name as your location

my memory... don't ever doubt it, lol (you don't have a clue)

i am going to heaven.....yep, my wife has been gone for a week and when she gets home tonight and the kids have gone to bed then were going to bed and i am going to heaven

be a man and be "born again" for the "second coming"

you tell them Christo,You are right Hunter when you wake up you will be in your heaven! MsAries thanks for sharing ,I could of never guessed that!Have a good day! PureWater is good for the soul!

Heesus H. Cristo! There's no "H" in Cristo!

That's like calling you Phurewater.

Did I misspell that O know! my bad

O know? Oh my, lol.

Well I had a conversation with Satan. He promised me a corner office on the second floor of Hell. Why? He knows of the nasty/nice things I would like to do to the Mingles women. He also gave me the ok to blow something up. Just so you know its a blow up doll. So, neiner neiner neiner.

Hehehe....the second floor of Hell is like being in the basement of Heaven. You'll have to break out the old LP collection to find the Stairway to Heaven.

There are no levels in Heaven according to Father Guido Sarducci:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AKvRvL5r3A

Pay attention to the part about "Paying For Your Sins", you sinners!

Shop and Mlady? If you do have that chat online, let me know how it goes. H20 got me on chat the other day. In my opinion, he didn't want to 'discuss', he wanted to convert me to how he believes, which is where he got that all I want to do is 'argue' in his post up there somewhere. I suppose his approach is all well and good for someone who isn't confident in their beliefs. But if you want to discuss Theology and different viewpoints, I don't think it's very productive to insist that your own interpretation is the only way to see.

frck? if you're going to "convert" to something - consider this:

women

trust me (and I think I speak on behalf of all hetro-males) women ROCK!

honestly, men are the pits - I can't stand them

I don't know what you women see in "us" and will never understand WHY YOU'D WANT ONE!

I am seriously finding some of the posts in here way too funny and laugh out loud as I read them. Frckid1 - I decided to pull out of that conversation (if it occurs) and "Leave It To Beaver" to sort out. (Geeez, that is so Canadian!)

for this reason God gave them up to vile passions .For even their WOMAN exchanged their NATURAL use what is against nature. Likewise also mem leaveing the natural use of woman,BURNED in their LUST for one another,MEN with MEN committing whats is SHAMEFUL,and receiving in themselves the PENALTY of their error which was DUE. And then they did not like to retain God in their knowledge,God gave them over to a DEBASED MIND,to do those things which are NOT FITTING :being filled with all ungighteousness,sexual immoality,wickedness and the list go's on. Go ahead Frk give us all your interpataion of this scripture ,just incase you don't no where it is .its in Romans 1/24-32 For those of you who refuse to admitt God hates gay sexual practice ,I fear for you that God has already given you over to a DEBASED MIND,if this is true you are a dead man/woman walking! Truly their is no more hope for you, Enjoy heaven on earth,this will be the best it gets for you!Have a good day!PureWater

see frck? another fine example of why you wouldn't want a man, lol!

purewater, perhaps you should open your own forum-thread about religion

(some of us are allergic to hell-fire and brimstone)

Cristo- its a given frck likes womanLOL and its not about religion its about telling people the truth,but never the less lets hear what Frck has to say about these verses,according to her she knows.

what annoys me most is that Purewater believes his opinions and his alone are the correct ones. this is what bothers me about religios people like him, he refuses to acknowledge that some of us choose not to believe in religion and some people chose to believe in other religions.. it is bible thumpers like him that make me hate religion instead of just ignoring it

Purewater: These people are so lost in here it is a waste of time talking to them about the bible, but this is what the Lord wants us christians to do and that is spread the word even if a select few in here has an empty brain.

Hunter_rep: I'm like you I don't believe in religion either, I believe in the Holy bible, the best book on earth.

Cristo: You try to come off as a smart man, but you are in fact so childish for your age, maybe it's the sign of old age and emptyness you have in your life.

Im5-I know what your saying,but Frik thinks she's got the correct interpretation for Romans 1 /26-27 I want everyone to hear her take on it. I'm just about done its getting boring. Hunter either way you look at it your in the same boat,hate the Word or ignore it, your end will be the same. Instead of blaming me why don't you read the bible for yourself,just don't tell anyone? Im5 its no longer about the gays its about the bible and Gods Word now! Have a good day!

im5 - I come across as smart because I am...

you come across as living proof that native americans phucked the buffalo, lol!

and PAH'leaseeeeeeeeeeeee shave that thing off your face, you look like an armpit with eyes

I think anyone is 'just' in spreading GOD's word. Just not in the limited context of what you would prefer people to believe. Nor do I think it's appropriate to take one or two lines out of context and try to define what it is saying. I told you this in chat, Water. That being said, ANYONE with more than 2 brain cells to rub together, will look at words in the context they were written, NOT pull one sentence out of 30 and attempt to mold it into what you would like it to mean. And yes, I do like women. I like men, too. Do I sleep with both sexes? No, I'm not gay. But you go on and believe what you'd like. It doesn't make a bit of difference to me.

AND, you are wrong about this not being about human (gay) rights. YOU made it into a matter of what you think the Bible dictates about gays. Which I still don't feel has any place in the discussion about rights at all. Cim said it most succinctly: Religion should have no place in politics.

i would rather read my subscription to playboy before i read the bible

That's okay Rep. Water can tell you 'exactly' what it says...

'I'm just about done its getting boring.' <-- If you really think you're 'spreading the word', how do you think God would feel about that statement??

AND..since I'm being 'argumentative' anyway...I think it's awfully presumptuous and pious of you Water, to assume, and verbalize, that any who don't believe the same as you would be refused entry to heaven.

Ya Ya Bla Bla,I knew you wouldn't go out and tell people what you think those verse's mean,You want to know what God has told me Frik? Hang on to your pants you won't like it ,ready here it comes DO NOT GIVE WHAT IS HOLY TO DOGS,NOR CAST YOUR PEARLS BEFORE SWINE,,LEST THEY TRAMPLE THEM UNDER THIER FEET,AND TURN AND TEAR YOU INTO PEACES! Thats right He's talking about people just like you. Look don't take my word for it,go to church and talk to a pastor,you pick um,just make sure they teach from the Holy Bible and nothung else. But you wont do that,you all ready have your mind set ,you don't want to hear anything but what you want to hear,you want your ears tickled, you want that warm little fuzzy's feeling,Satan will be more than happy to provide you with that,but don't expect that from me!have fun in satans camp!! LOL You got my email- go ahead use it ,if you want. Have a good day! PureWater ummmm soooo good for the soul

well frck, maybe if you would have played nearly 300 softball games this year (so far) instead of raising a family you'd understand - LOL!

is it possible to be "pious" when you live in RENO - the original home of legalized gambling and prostitution??

"playing softball for Jesus" just sounds like a convenience that's only slightly less humiliating than "pulling a Swaggert" or a "Jim Bakker" or the dozens of others who can find loopholes in the bible for their extravagances (OOPS, meant to say "SINS" lol)

that's the common theme for "that kind" of christianity..... any "moral compass issues" are covered with "I'm not perfect, I will be forgiven" - but, 'YOU GODLESS HEATHEN WHO DON'T AGREE WITH ME WILL GO TO HELL!!!'

religious dogma.......... BARK! BARK! BARK!

Cristo ,I havn't a good laugh like that in a while,that was to good BROTHER LOL LOL HA HA HA HA thank you for that!

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1101752217&ref=profile Can't you just feel the love in here?Let the good times roll,take it all in!!! PureWater is sooo sweet for your soul*******

Seriously, I didn't even tell YOU what I thought those verses meant. What I did discuss is what they 'could' mean, or why I didn't think they were as cleanly defined as you would like me to believe. Again, all I can say is WOW. People that limit their own knowledge have always amazed me. And for the record, I've been to churches, any number of denominations, can you say the same? Have you taken Theology? Out of curiosity, is your only belief based if what you learned when you were in need of religion? Have you ever heard any words other than your own? I can understand that. It's a comfort zone. What I don't understand is limiting yourself to only that perspective and not moving beyond it. I prefer to gather knowledge from all places I can find it. It doesn't mean I agree with all I find. It may even mean I dislike some of what I find. However, doing so provides me a broader understanding and tolerance of thoughts other than what I may believe in. It also allows me to not inflict limits on my understanding of others and their beliefs, as I may actually learn something from it. But then, we're kind of different people...and I thank GOD for that.

i have more belief in santa clause then i do the bible

If God will send the gays to hell, Why are these people worrying about their lifestyle choices? Does it matter? Will it affect the straight people? Will the whole world go gay because of gay marriage? OH MY GOD!!!! It's spreading were all doomed!!!!! - LOL

12/4/2008 12:48:43 AM

Member since 11/28/2008 11:19:53 PM

purewater wrote:"PureWater is sooo sweet for your soul*******"

--if that isnt gay then what is?

Hey MsAries, Nice pic girl!

Do tell Frik,you don't say. Ok then by all means tell me who are the authors of the commentarys you have read ? Where have you got your understanding from,I'm not asking for all your resources just give me a few that say God aproves of gay sexual relationships.Your presumming alot about me or is that your judgment?I'm open to what you say just back it up. I have read Dr.John MacArthur.Jr./Warren Wiersbe/William MacDonald/Albert Barns /J Vernon McGee/Matthew Henry'/R A Torrey just to name a few and they all say the same thing,God hates gay/lesbian sexual practice. These authors are not just some fly by the mill guys,check them out for yourself before you insult them or me.You are only digging a deeper hole for yourself. Just so you know I was going to three differnt churchs a week and going to five services a week and involved with church 6 days a week in some way for over two years,I have sence cut it back to two days a week,by the way are you getting to any prayer meetings lately? You do not want to challenge me on my commitment.MsAries the Water is Gods word,try to keep your head up my dear.And not to leave you out Mellis,just so you know God does not throw any one in hell ,they go there by there on free choice,thats right you all get the equal right or free will to go to hell,your choice! Have a good day PureWater!I will leave the rest out because I can see its causeing some confusion

the only confusion here is YOU...

telling one of us (or all of us) what God will do to us "if" we do something is TAKING THE LORD'S NAME IN VAIN...

why? because you do NOT know what God will do or when He'll do it and you don't have the "eminance" to speak on His behalf

go play more softball - it's clearly more in your "field"

New Thread--i5 and purewater, a marraige made in heaven. Or is that legal or moral?

lol, it's doubtful purewater would open a thread with the beliefs he touts in here - the only one that would probably post would be him and/or "library-boy"

I DO wonder if he can see Las Vegas sitting high a'top that Chair of Judgement that he's perched himself upon....

Cristo/ what rabbit trail are you on now?{Taking the Lords name in vain}? Try and stay focused on why gay marriage won't work and what Jesus says will happen to these people if they don't repent. God has given us His WORD in the Bible,Jesus won't break His WORD,Jesus is the WORD. I'm very Clear on what The Word say's. But never the less lets see if frik can back up what she says,you know with all that knowlege and church experence. As far as Las Vegas go's ,I guess thats why they call it sin city. there you go running down another rabbit trail,and now you see me setting as Jesus or some thing,Cristo you might want to get your glasses check,you are not seeing to clearly BROTHER. Shopstar you of all people should know there will be no marriage in heaven.really is that all you got?Have a good day boys and girls -Pure Water is good for the soul ,but you what they say you can lead a horse to Water but you can't force him to drink!

Cristo: When I log in and see your rubberneck self I crack up with laughter, you know they say laughter is good for you, so seeing your stupid post keeps me happy! Yeah I phucked a buffalo and you phucked your mom

thank you shop - hugs to you!

i thought softball was for girls??? lol.

on my way to walmart, you think they'll have any 'pure water'? im curious on how it will taste or if i will start speaking in tongues *speaking in tongues* HALLELUJAH, MECOMEINAHONDA, SHADRACH, MESCHACH, AND A BILLYGOAT...

imsexy - how do u f@ck a buffalo? yuck! j/k

how? ask "mr.armpit with eyes" LOL!

that's what I love about these holier'than'thou "E-Christians" online...... preach, judge and.....

when all else fails, make accusational sexual references about dead relatives

PRAISE the Lord and pass the ammunition!

so who's really going to hell....... a same-sex baptized church-going couple that wants to legitimize their love and dedication to each other in a non-religious/civil-ceremony or judgemental jerks with too much time on their hands?

have another carrot and head down your trail Cristo,who is it your calling a judgemental jerk? LOL Sounds like you want to be at the lake of fire with your pals Cristo. Boy that ot to blow your mind*** /Lake and Fire? hows that going to work?

ooooo I LOVE camping with friends!

(too bad you'll be playing softball with the boys every night)

when the time comes, I'll tell God you said "howdy" (maybe He'll send you a holiday card)

dude? you're DONE, lol!

So you list a bunch of Baptists/radio preachers/televangelists. I'm not sure what books you're reading by these guys. I know there is at least one in the lot that has no publications credited to him. Unless they're the pamphlets that you get from someone knocking at your door. But I'll overlook that. My comment was more a question of asking if you had studied or participated in any type of religion OTHER than what fits nicely into what you care to believe? Have you read anything about Hinduism, the Bah' Faith, Islam, Indian religions, Chinese folk religions, Taoism, tribal religions...ANYTHING other than fire and brimstone related religions? Do you seriously want me to start copying Bible verse in here that could be interpreted as contradictory to your point of view? This was not the point behind this forum.

And I don't it's fair to reference Lake or Fire in your preachings without first being asked. Did you clear that with them?

pureh2o - i just watched "brokeback mountain"...loved it!

LOL!

pureh20... if you get a chance you should watch this. it might help you with your arguements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0PLKCFzcfw

every time purewater speaks it makes me wanna fall in to a coma

*gets a nice pillow for hunter and his blankey* LOL - here hunter

purewater-God has a sense of humor, he created "I'm a moron" i5-armpit with eyes,LMAO

Bla bla bla Frik,you got nothing but horse shit running out your mouth. You like the the darkness ,so by all means stay in it. You bring up all these satanic practices,you are way out there girl. Your a waste of my time. Hunter you are in a coma,and MsAries your so confued you don't which way to go ,so you go with who ever will have you,Iseen your pic you look like some kinda witch doctor from Africa. Go back to the jungle girl! Have a good day. Purewater

MsAries is confued? man i hope she aint contagious.

pureh20 --that pic your referring to is an actress who is playing the character Calypso in Pirates of the Carribean... duh u racist dummy making a statement like that! so your just a plain ole' bigot huh? your true colors are revealed. yea, im sure you will make it past the pearly gates so you can kick it with the disciples. or do you want us sinners to save you a spot in our second floor office in hell???

lol@confued!!! the only thing im 'confued' about are wannabe-preachy-judgemental- misinterpreting-the bible-CHRISTIANS! pure, i know the scriptures that your throw at people. i havent got into throwing and arguing the bible with you b/c i didnt think you were worth it...and you just proved me right!

Is that why you are a queer?Satan has you Aries ,you judge me like you do all christains,I told you you are noy going to get any warm fuzzy from melook at you I mahe a misspell a word and you use it agasint me .your a joke,you got the point tho. Go ahead find a verse in any religion showing where God aproves queer sex. And yes cnfued is contagious Hunter you got it all ready and don't even know it. You just stand there and keep judging born again believers,you are the fist ones to say we judge,you dummie's you are worse than christians,at least we are forgiven for ALL our sins,you are not, so you have to live by the law but you don't believe that either. you don't want to know Jesus why don't you just come out and say it- spirit Louge,at least she says she worships satan,black people are the people who keep the race card alive,not the white poeple.the pic looked just like you ,thats just what it looked like to me. Purewater is good for your soul. Have a good Day

With all the talk about gay rights these days, I think we should read what God has to say on the subject. Does God support gay rights? Are gay people born gay? Does God approve of homosexuality? The answer to all those questions is no. God does not believe in gay rights. Gay people are not born gay, it is a life style they chose. God does not approve of homosexuality.

Now I know that some people will be offended by this Bible study and want to send me an e-mail telling me so. They will ask me such questions like "Who are you to judge me?" and "What about love your neighbour as yourself?" Well, you can save yourself some time because here are the answers to those questions. First off, I'm not judging you, God is. I'm quoting verses from the King James Bible on homosexuality and it is God that said homosexuality is a sin. As for loving my neighbour, this is a Bible study done with Christian love for others. As we will see later in the Bible study, gay people do not get to go to heaven unless they repent of the sin of homosexuality and change there ways. The unrighteous do not inherit the kingdom of God (I Corinthians 6:9-10).

Lets start our Bible study on gay rights homosexuality and the Bible in Genesis with the creation of mankind on the sixth day.

Genesis 1:26-31

V26 And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

V27 So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.

God created all the people of the earth in His image. Notice that God created both male and female. There is a reason God created male and female, He has a plan as we will see in the next verse.

V28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Fruitful 6509 parah (paw-raw'); a primitive root; to bear fruit (literally or figuratively).

Multiply 7235 rabah (raw-baw'); a primitive root; to increase (in whatever respect).

Here we have God's first command to mankind and that is to be fruitful and multiply. God is not talking about growing crops of corn or wheat but of having children. God created us male and female to have children. If a person is in a gay relationship, they can not have children the way God intended them to.

V29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

V30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

V31 And God saw every thing that He had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Note in verse 31 that God saw everything that He made and it was very good. I bring this to your attention because of the lies that are spread today, that gay people are born gay. I do not care what any so called doctor may say, not one single person was ever born gay. How can I be so sure? Because God has Paul tell us in the book of Romans that homosexuality is against nature, meaning it is an unnatural act. God is a God of love and fairness. When we get to God's law on homosexuality, you will see that God said homosexual people should be put to death. Now stop and think for a minute. In verse 31 God said that everything He made was very good. Later on in the Bible, God said the punishment for the sin of homosexuality is death. If people are born gay like some so called "experts" say, God would not have said the punishment for homosexuality is death. That would not be fair to that person. What people need to know is that Satan is god of this world and that many of the so called "experts" are just tools of Satan used to spread lies about God's Word. We should always check out what some one may say in God's Word. If what they say does not line up with what God said, it is a lie from Satan.

Now lets take a look at God's law on homosexuality.

Leviticus 18:22

V22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Lie 7901 shakab (shaw-kab'); a primitive root; to lie down (for rest, sexual connection, decease or any other purpose).

Abomination 8441 tow.. ebah (to-ay-baw'); or to.. ebah (to-ay-baw'); feminine active participle of 8581; properly, something disgusting (morally), i.e. (as noun) an abhorrence; especially idolatry or (concretely) an idol.

8581 ta.. ab (taw-ab'); a primitive root; to loathe, i.e. (morally) detest.

Men having sexual connections with other men is morally disgusting in God's eyes. As we will see in the New Testament, so is women with women. Do not believe anyone that would tell you that God thinks homosexuality is ok with Him because it is not. If you are a gay person reading this and you want to go to heaven, you are going to have to change your ways. You were not born gay and God does not approve of homosexuality. You must confess your sin to God, ask for forgiveness and change your ways. Ask Him to help you to over come the sin of homosexuality.

Leviticus 20:13

V13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

The word lie in this verse means the same thing as it does in Leviticus 18:22 Once again God is telling us that He does not approve of homosexuality and that it is a sin. You probably noticed in this verse that God's judgment for gay people is that they are put to death. If a true man or woman of God was in charge of this country (USA) you can bet that this law would be followed today. For the lawmakers and other people that support gay rights, they probably think this verse is a hate crime. Well I have some news for them. By calling God's Holy Word a hate crime they are walking on very thin ice. Someday they will see God face to face and chances are they are not going to be very happy on that day. God is going to want to know why they called His Word a hate crime. What are they going to say to Him on that day? "Sorry God, but I know how to treat your children that you created better than you do." If you are a Christian and you think this verse is a hate crime, you better wise up fast. If you think you know more than God, you have become a fool.

Does the New Testament have anything to say on gay people and homosexuality? You bet. Lets go to the book of Romans.

Romans 1:22-27

V22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Any time some one thinks they know more than God, they become a fool. How can the creature know more than it's Creator? It can't. Job thought he was wise. Read Job chapters 38 to 42 and see what God had to say to him.

V23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

These fools will worship anything except the immortal God. God gave us His Word, the Bible to guide us in our daily life. Sad to say but many of His children have never bothered to read His letter to us. We should love God more than anything else in this world.

V24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

These people did not follow God's laws and turned there back on Him. If you reject God, He will reject you.

V25 Who changed the truth of God into a

leaving that sentence unfinished for a word game?

'V25 Who change the truth of God into a....'

softball player living in Nevada's version of Sodom and Gomorrah?

translate this (if you dare..... lol)

John 3:16 - New American Standard Bible

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life

phoulwater doesn't like translations......... he likes the LITERAL meanings (well, at least when they are convenient to his arguments, lol) -

"WHOEVER" (everyone, all)

it's NOT "exclusionary" - it means EVERYONE "who believes in Him"

that's the CLEAR difference between God, the bible, and the crazy charismatics....

the crazy charismatics are always talking about what GOD "believes in" when christianity is based upon US believing in God

after all, He DID so love the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that WHOEVER believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life (not just the softball playing charismatics) - EVERYONE who believes in Him.

ANYTHING else is blasphemy...

ANYTHING else is taking the Lord's name in vain

(and the crazy charismatics are going to hell for those two sins just as surely and quick as you think the gay people are)

phoulwater - take it back to the lower intelligence of Yahoo Chat where the intelligence quotient is much lower than here in Mingles

that's where your rhetoric belongs

like I posted earlier - you're DONE, lol!

but - back to your "word game" -

'V25 Who change the truth of God into a....'

ranting of a lonely maniac?

'V25 Who change the truth of God into a....'

circus pig?

'V25 Who change the truth of God into a....'

money making tax-free business venture?

'V25 Who change the truth of God into a....'

silk purse from a sow's ear?

'V25 Who change the truth of God into a....'

free lunch?

There's only one way to look at this entire situation, pure- seriously-

Matt 7:2-5 "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged , and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you . Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye ? How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye [that there are greater or the same sins in our own lives which we do nothing about or think we are above]? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye , and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Another one, although I don't know where it is, NT I would guess, but I'm too lazy to look it up.."Beloved, let us love one another- for love is of God, and everyone who loves is born of God, and knows God. He who doesn't love, doesn't know God, for God is love." Oh wait, it's 1 John 4: 7, 8---I remember because it was a song we used to sing in church, lol-

We can't sit in judgment on people like that, because we're in no position to judge- personal feelings get in the way, and in the end, what you're saying gets lost in the "nastiness" of the argument- Even Jesus didn't do that with the adulteress who was going to be stoned- and this was a sin considered to be punishable by death- he just said, 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'- which I take to mean, loosely, as "hey...who are you to condemn someone when you have sin in your own life?"- he then asked her where her accusers were, (they had left the place they were at), and told her that he didn't condemn her either, and to go and sin no more-

You have to temper everything you say with love, and with compassion- then the things you say will have a lot more impact, seriously. People can tell if we're talking about things like this with a self-righteous attitude, and that doesn't come across well to people-

but but but but MOSTIE.......

the "charismatics" believe that it's OK for "THEM" to sin because they are human and will be forgiven

(which justifies their rant that "us sinners" are going straight to hell, lol)

but - back to "fill in the blank" word play...

'V25 Who change the truth of God into a....'

pillar of salt?

I'll take "What is used in a water softener?", Alex.

So any religion, other than your own, are Satanic practices. Who's in the dark here?

Cristo, if 'they're' sinning in what they believe is the name of God, 'they' don't see it as a sin. They circle it back to being okay, because 'it's what God would want, and what God would do'. Because, after all is said and done, 'they' KNOW.

And Water, your comment to MsAries was uncalled for, racist, and just plain obnoxious. MsAries is right. You aren't worth the time. Your type of ignorance can't be cured as you don't WANT to see any viewpoint other than your own. I pity you.

wOw frck, you've never had pity for a living joke before

"Prop 8 - The Musical" starring Jack Black, John C. Reilly, and many more...

(both sides of the story....... in a lovely medley of tunes, lol)

http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/c0cf508ff8

Bla Bla Bla ,you guys got nothing! All you want to do is tear down,gosip,spead lies and live the way you want to. Cristo you and frik go back a long time,you guys been on here 8 or 9 years now kissing each others ass. Maybe I will get to see you guys on TV standing in the gay movement parade. Speaking of T-V's You probably have no problem with them either!! After all they are ust like you guys! LOL

You got one thing right Cristo I am one REAL good softball player! Have a good day!

thanks frck!

pureh20 writes: "Bla Bla Bla ,you guys got nothing! All you want to do is tear down,gosip,spead lies and live the way you want to."

dude, seriously look in the mirror... then reread your posts. (im not kidding)

but in anycase... YOU'RE DONE! and just taking up space!

Purewater, perhaps a man that plays with softballs, is always trying to get to first base with other men, and constantly hoping to score shouldn't be the one casting stones at "gays"...I see in your picture you wear only one glove, much like Michael Jackson does. Does that mean we should judge you as belonging to the same "group?" If that's the case, this thread could turn into a thriller after all. The pearly gates of Neverland only open one way.

How true MsAries1.

and it go's on and on and on and on,I don't care what you want to judge,you do a good job of it ,stay at it ,you even judge God,and have called Him a liar,I'm not done far from it ,I've only just started ,by they you guys what do you think about the Tranny's ,they have a pure heart are they going to heaven,you sound just like them ooop's I didn't mean to insult you,your probably not insulted tho ,you are them. PEW its stinks in here,some body better put thier cloths back on or go take a shower,stinky stinky boys. HA HA LOL