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Brawls Break Out Among Laid-Off Workers as Michigan Car Dealership Closes.

Guy named Stanton starts a fight because he is getting laid off...

"Does it matter how hard you work, because there is somebody a little bit above you that has the right to control every decision and every effort you put forward, don't you have a right to be a little bit mad when somebody says hey we're all done?" Stanton asked WWMT-TV. "It's terrible, horrible."

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These poor dumb bastards really truly think they DESERVE a living from the people who own the business.

They think it is perfectly okay to get 'a little mad' and start a fight because they're getting laid off.

I cannot believe the 'entitlement' these workers feel is 'owed' them, to the point where they feel violence is justified.

Unreal... THIS is why jobs have moved to Mexico and overseas.

Oh my friend, youve told the honest truth. Someones self esteem may have been injured and the politically correct crowd is going to come down hard.

Never did understand the whole "they owe me a job" mentality; if said worker was worth anything at all and had such a superior skill set, said worker could go to any business and secure employment. Or, maybe said worker isnt worth employing in the first place.....

Welcome Pete.......I think you're gonna find some people with like minds in these forums......and then we have others that are more liberal in thoughts so it makes for a great diversity and good discussions....

Entitlement has been a curse in the US......and I think we're about to see just how much of one.......

I gotta say that "stanton" handled things quite inappropriately. He was not even singled out for a layoff.... THE DEALERSHIP WAS CLOSING FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD!!!!!! For that, I have to agree with tck. It seems to me that this guy does have some entitlement issues.

But not all jobs can be outsourced overseas. Some jobs just simply require employee presence in the US. Stanton's job was probably a good example of one. As for all those call center jobs having been shipped to India? Businesses are finding out that call center operations in the US can be far more effective and successful.... Simply put, the service is better. It could be that an American is more likely to know more of the slang terms Americans use... little things like that can really make a difference. I do not doubt that many call center jobs will be returning to US soil as businesses get frustrated with complaints about customer service.

dang, i sure hope your right about the call centers,though i have nothing against indian people,when i get a call center,it drives me up the wall to get someone from india,who can never seem to get what i need taken care of

Workers say Obama treated autos worse than Wall St.

Autoworkers say Obama's 'tough love' more tough than love, they get worse treatment than banks.

DETROIT (AP) -- Many assembly line autoworkers reacted with skepticism and anger Monday to the Obama administration's tough tactics, which stoked long-simmering feelings that the people who put the country on wheels get treated differently than the wizards of Wall Street.

"It's the age-old Wall Street vs. Main Street smackdown again," said Brian Fredline, president of UAW Local 602 at a plant near Lansing. "You have all kinds of funding available to banks that are apparently too big to fail, but they're also too big to be responsible."

"But when it comes to auto manufacturing and middle-class jobs and people that don't matter on Wall Street, there are certainly different standards that we have to meet -- higher standards -- than the financials. That is a double standard that exists and it's unfair," Fredline said.

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There was a time when American workers had pride.

Now they are a bunch of blubbering f*cking crybabies. Sad & embarrassing.

Well... there goes any re-election hopes. It was only a matter of time before the UAW got caught up in the fray. And of course they are just "victims" of GM's greed.

"BO" will be a "one & done" unless he becomes a war-time President. It's short hop from Iraq to Afganistan. Or maybe he'd like to pick up where Clinton left off in Somalia?

GM and Chrysler were both given an opportunity to re-organize and qualify themselves for a bailout. They failed.

I see American workers as having become overly complacent and dependent.

- When you have a job that basically anyone can do, don't expect high pay. That's just common sense.

- When you have a job that basically anyone can do, constantly keep looking over your shoulder for someone else to take your job for less money (like you did). That's just Business 101.

- When you have a job that basically anyone can do, learn, get education, study, make yourself more valuable - strive for a higher level of employment. Everyone cannot be middle class or high class.

- If you have a job that basically anyone can do, appreciate it, realize it is your choice, and graciously accept what your employer provides you (because it is YOU that is NOT striving for more).

- And whatever you do - don't EVER feel you DESERVE what you can't earn, and what you can't pay for. Unfortunately, sadly, YOU are not that important in the world scheme of things. Sorry, reality sucks.

(Unions sucker people into all of these traps.)

Think about it.

*shrugs* Sounds like you're describing management to me.

Who is responsible for letting the unions get out of control? Or treating workers so horrifically that unions became a necessity?

Ford used to have "starmen" who beat people up with big sticks...

I don't see Japanese-run companies as even needing unions *yet, anyways* so they dodged that bullet quite handily.

The problem I see is, since our system is cyclic and businesses go "bad" and must be replaced/regenerated, you can't let them get as big as gm "or walmart" or fannie or freddie mac, or when they start dying *for whatever inevitable reason* they take too much of a chunk of our economy down with them and cause too much of an economic hiccup.

Unbridled capitalism just doesn't work.

Think about it.

Good input, no right or wrong answers.

(No, actually I was describing the nursing (RN) field, for example, no shortage of jobs but few want to become educated enough to do it. What happens when/if the nursing field becomes too full of qualified applicants? Um... the same thing that happened to the auto workers - too many people can do the job, the money decreases, they had better find something else to do, nothing remains constant anymore in the world economy.)

I truly believe each of us must do for ourselves what we formerly expected others to do for us.

If you hire me to mow your lawn, I must mow the lawn when you want it mowed, the way you want it mowed, and accept the pay you want to offer. Otherwise I choose to move on to something else.

I call this 'grassroots' logic, it does not get any clearer. Unbridled capitalism.

We each face that choice mowing lawns or performing any other services for pay, right?

That all makes sense to me to a point. I just don't want to end up chained to my mower.

Make the parrot do it!!!

There are many careers this has happened in. Social work was the big thing in late seventies....then there was a glut of them and no one made much money. Computer techs...big need.....everyone and their brother went to school.....now they are a dime a dozen.....

I don't blame people for "depending" on their job.....but, you need to be ready to make a move at anytime. Always be taking classes for something else or a specialized postion.....never let yourself be static......Things can shift at any moment....and now would be that time........

I think this is an awesome topic and I like Kee's phrase 'unbridled capitalism', because I think that is exactly what 'global economy' means. And I think it will spell BIG trouble for the USA, if it hasn't already.

There are people in Africa dying because they have no 'money'. That is a consequence of 'unbridled capitalism'... human death due to no product, no money, no revenue stream. Few seem to care, few can do anything about it.

There are people in other countries willing work for very little money, but in the past they had no work to do. In past decades the USA, as a nation, has been VERY high on the world economic scale because we bought from each other and we sold to other nations (two major consumer sources, us and them). We manufactured, we purchased what we manufactured, we exported what we manufactured, and because of this trade cycle we were a very 'rich' nation. Well, unfortunately, that cycle has ended.

People in other countries have work now. Cheaper foreign imports and re-location of manufacturing industry to other nations in the 'global economy' can only result in a lower standard of economy for the USA (in my opinion). I simply cannot conceive of any different scenario.

I'm not saying that we are f*cked... because we are a very innovative and productive society (we have been in the past anyhow). But I am firmly certain that our overall standard of living, across the board, will decline. Count on it because it is already happening.

(Notice how when the US automobile industry is facing difficulties the Japanese manufacturers 'suddenly' offer a quality car for $10,000? There will ALWAYS be someone willing to do the job for a little bit cheaper, sell the product for a little less, just to get the work. In a world economy this unbridled capitalism will entail US workers working for less.)

We, as a nation, cannot 'create' wealth in a global economy, we will have to earn it.

A lot of this is my opinion, but factual and actual events indicate no other path.

Details of threat to close Globe emerge.

Storm over Morrissey Boulevard

By Christine McConville

Sunday, April 5, 2009 - Updated 7h ago

Theres a mutinous mood on Morrissey Boulevard, as Boston Globe staffers lash out over a stunning ultimatum from parent company The New York Times [NYT] Co.

"Theyre nickel-and-diming people," said a Globe union official who spoke on condition of anonymity, adding that top executives at The New York Times Co., which owns the Globe, "have ruined" the sagging broadsheet.

On Thursday, Times executives told representatives from the Boston papers 13 unions that they must trim $20 million from their budgets by May 1 or the Times would shut the paper down.

The move came days after the Globe reduced its newsroom work force by about 70 employees, full and part time, through a mix of voluntary buyouts and layoffs.

"Were going to go through the same thing three months later," said a frustrated union boss.

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Amazing how people that work for a company think they deserve a say in how to run the company.

Hey! Union jackasses! Start YOUR OWN company, and run it the way YOU want!

You don't run other peoples' companies just because you work there- that's common sense.

How f*cking dumb can some people be????

Some sources suggest that Obama would like to see everyone working for the government.

I'm up for that,better pay,better medical benefits,and early retirement-can't beat that

Are there any reasons why everyone cannot work for the U.S. government?

Obama to Request Budget Cuts From Agency Heads.

Families are making tough decisions about their money and so too will their government, President Obama said Saturday, promising that spending cuts are coming -- and soon.

At a Cabinet meeting Monday, the president will ask department and agency heads for specific proposals for trimming their budgets.

"If we're going to rebuild our economy on a solid foundation, we need to change the way we do business in Washington. We need to restore the American people's confidence in their government -- that it is on their side, spending their money wisely, to meet their families needs," Obama said in his weekly radio and Internet address, released while he attended the Summit of the Americans in Trinidad.

To help achieve his goal of an efficient government, Obama announced the appointment of Jeffrey Zients, a founder and managing partner of the investment firm Portfolio Logic, as chief performance officer. Zients, who also will serve as deputy director for management of the Office of Management and Budget, will work to streamline processes and cut costs.

On that front, Obama gave notice he wants to act quickly.

"In the coming weeks, I will be announcing the elimination of dozens of government programs shown to be wasteful or ineffective," he said. "In this effort, there will be no sacred cows and no pet projects. All across America, families are making hard choices, and it's time their government did the same."

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Obama did not mention anything about the $787 billion already wasted - he simply announced that he would try not to waste any further money.

Sometime prior to the next election the 'common working man' (who will no longer be working) will notice that government employees are still be receiving high pay, full benefits, and early retirement.

The jobs Obama talks about 'creating' are temporary jobs paid for with government $$, when the government $$ run out so do these 'jobs'.

My own forecast is that the democrats will be tossed out of office for the crime of 'Obamacide' during the next election, and Obama will be a one term president for the same reason.

(Barack 'Obamacide' Obama will be a lame knucklehead like Carter.)

A $787 billion spending bill and none of the democrats had time to read it?

Yet these same democrats will have plenty of time to campaign for office though, watch and see. They have plenty of time for their own agendas, lol.

Imagine these slogans... "Yes we can!" and "Vote for change!".

tck, a little friendly advice..... be careful with a certain nickname for the prez..... i do believe they signed the patriot act into law.....

but frankly, I do hope he only serves one term.... by then we are gonna NEED a republican back in office.

I voted for Mccain, i think his idea for smaller goverment, and a freeze on spending was our ticket out of this mess. I hope it's not to late in 4 years!

I hope the republicans have a real candidate in 4 years.

Whats wrong with Sara Palin,I'll vote for her cause she's has good assets

Reid says Obama told him, 'I have a gift'.

By KEVIN FREKING, Associated Press Writer - Mon Apr 27, 5:09 am ET

WASHINGTON Everyone knows President Barack Obama can deliver a great speech, including the president himself, according to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid.

The paperback version of Reid's book, "The Good Fight," is coming out May 5 with an epilogue called "The Obama Era." Reid said he was impressed when Obama, then a freshman senator from Illinois, delivered a speech about President George W. Bush's war policy.

Reid, D-Nev., writes: "'That speech was phenomenal, Barack,' I told him. And I will never forget his response. Without the barest hint of braggadocio or conceit, and with what I would describe as deep humility, he said quietly: 'I have a gift, Harry.'"

A copy of the book's 15-page epilogue was provided to The Associated Press.

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A nice 'gift' for this nation would be an increase in jobs.

Where are all of the thousands of workers being laid off going to work in the future?

The jobs they had in industry and manufacturing probably won't be coming back.

Detroit for example is a shambles... where do those people find work?

(CNN) -- The Boston Globe management warned the newspaper's four unions Sunday that failure to reach a financial concession would force the company to file a notice to shut down, the Guild said in a statement.

"We have provided our unions with a copy of a notice that we are prepared to file if we are unable to reach an agreement by the midnight [Sunday] deadline," Globe spokesman Robert Powers told the newspaper.

"This notice is required under the Worker Adjustment and Retraining Notification Act, which requires 60 days advance notice before the closure of a business."

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Businesses must provide 60 days advanced warning before going out of business.

(This law surely inspires businesses to employ more people, lol. Yeah, right! )

Beware of the 'changing laws' imposed by the 'new' government.

"By stepping over the bright line between the rule of law and the arbitrary behavior of men, President Obama may have created a thousand new failing businesses. That is, businesses that might have received financing before but that now will not, since lenders face the potential of future government confiscation. In other words, Mr. Obama may have helped save the jobs of thousands of union workers whose dues, in part, engineered his election. But what about the untold number of job losses in the future caused by trampling the sanctity of contracts today?

The value of the rule of law is not merely a matter of economic efficiency. It also provides a bulwark against arbitrary governmental action taken at the behest of politically influential interests at the expense of the politically unpopular. The government's threats and bare-knuckle tactics set an ominous precedent for the treatment of those considered insufficiently responsive to its desires. Certainly, holdout Chrysler creditors report that they felt little confidence that the White House would stop at informal strong-arming.

Chrysler -- or more accurately, its unionized workers -- may be helped in the short run. But we need to ask how eager lenders will be to offer new credit to General Motors knowing that the value of their investment could be diminished or destroyed by government to enrich a politically favored union. We also need to ask how eager hedge funds will be to participate in the government's Public-Private Investment Program to purchase banks' troubled assets.

And what if the next time it is a politically unpopular business -- such as a pharmaceutical company -- that's on the brink? Might the government force it to surrender a patent to get the White House's agreement to get financing for the bankruptcy plan?"

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Obama protects & rewards his voters, but is that in the best interest of the nation???

Or is it simply in the best interest of Obama's re-election???

When the billions and billions of unemployment dollars and other incentives to NOT work run out, will there be enough minimum wage jobs to go around?

Will 'workers' be lined up around the block (not wearing their union shirts) to get minimum wage jobs?

Rep. Alan Grayson was standing in the middle of Disney World when it hit him: What Americans really need is a week of paid vacation .

So on Thursday, the Florida Democrat will introduce the Paid Vacation Act legislation that would be the first to make paid vacation time a requirement under federal law.

The bill would require companies with more than 100 employees to offer a week of paid vacation for both full-time and part-time employees after theyve put in a year on the job. Three years after the effective date of the law, those same companies would be required to provide two weeks of paid vacation, and companies with 50 or more employees would have to provide one week.

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Yet another reason why it will be a long time before jobs come back.

Companies would pay a heavy, heavy price for having more than 49 employees.

(Solution for the companies - easy call - move the operation to Mexico.)

The way some of these politicians think is downright hilarious, lol.

"Rep. Alan Grayson was standing in the middle of Disney World when it hit him: What Americans really need is a week of paid vacation ."

What an idiot. We need jobs first, vacations are negotiable. Unless he's volunteering to pay. *ha*

A lot of jobs need to come back, a LOT...

Where's it worst? Detroit, where 57 mass layoffs snuffed out 14,781 jobs in the first quarter of 2009. Much of the pain came from the Big Three carmakers: General Motors, Chrysler and Ford Motor. The area has the highest unemployment rate in the country at 14%.

Chicago runs a close second with 13,647 jobs erased in mass firings. Construction-heavy Los Angeles, also hurt by the Golden States financial crisis, wiped out 10,594. Finance-focused New York lost 8,688 during the first quarter of 2009. Houston also made the list with 7,184 job losses; Dallas had 4,784.

Larger cities were bound to get singled out: They attract big corporations with big payrolls that require big cuts to make meaningful differences to their bottom lines. At the state level, California had the most mass layoffs with 115,014 workers let go, followed by Michigan with 46,817, Illinois with 41,887 and Texas with a more modest 33,005.

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"Rep. Alan Grayson was standing in the middle of Disney World when it hit him: What Americans really need is a week of paid vacation ."

With politicians thinking like Grayson thinks, jobs will NEVER come back.

How can a leader be so completely blind to reality? Is our leadership just sucking us dry?

Biden tells "Meet the Press" that "everyone guessed wrong" on the impact of the stimulus, economy was worse off than anyone thought.

Backs away from the estimate that the funds could create or save 3.5 million jobs, instead promises 600,000 by the end of the summer.

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OMG... you mean they should have actually read the spending bill before voting on it?

Say it isn't so! The democrats were so SURE, there was no question.

Gosh golly gee... the Obama Administration isn't always right.

(By the way... those 600,000 jobs? Temporary jobs. Nothing substantial.)

This morning I talked to a guy who is unemployed and looking for a job.

He gave me a sermon on how businesses abuse taxes, businesses abuse people, businesses are greedy, and businesses are only out to make money.

I asked him why he wanted a job. He said he needed the money.

I asked him if the only reason for the job was that he wanted money. He said yes.

(This why it will be a long time before jobs come back. )

Higher minimum wage coming soon.

Federal wage floor will rise to $7.25 an hour on July 24. Hike will be felt in 29 states. Can the job market handle it?

By Aaron Smith, CNNMoney.com staff writer

Last Updated: July 6, 2009: 2:56 PM ET

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The federal minimum wage is set to increase later this month as the job market shows signs of further decay.

The federal minimum wage will go to $7.25 an hour on July 24 from its current level of $6.55, according to the U.S. Department of Labor.

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Instead of hiring more people, employers will simply task existing employees with even more duties.

Many employees are already doing jobs once took two people to do. They either bear down and do it, or they're out. Fasten your seatbelts, rough road ahead.

I just had that discussion with a young kid (Rigger-22yo) on my last project. CalDive International was going to downsize. He said if they eliminate the top jobs, he would leave first. I told him I was raised "old school" in that if I heard there was a nine man layoff of a ten man crew. I'd just have to make sure I worked harder that the other nine, even for less money. I'd probably eventually leave for more money, but at the same time, I like my life and it takes MONEY!

Feds mulling mortgage aid for unemployed...

Why accept a job? Take the free unemployment money, take the free house payments!

Work at a job... are you nutzzz? lol.

tck, some of us don't qualify for all that "free" money

Shopstar, I'm of the same mind set that you are, better to work to make yourself indispensable, and work for less, than be out of work.

I personally feel that this government has completely lost touch with reality, and with the people that put them in power. I think every american should watch this video. If you feel like you want to do it, let me know, i'll buy the tea bag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeYscnFpEyA

tck, some of us don't qualify for all that "free" money

Shopstar, I'm of the same mind set that you are, better to work to make yourself indispensable, and work for less, than be out of work.

I personally feel that this government has completely lost touch with reality, and with the people that put them in power. I think every american should watch this video. If you feel like you want to do it, let me know, i'll buy the tea bag.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jeYscnFpEyA

"tck, some of us don't qualify for all that "free" money..."

I heard ya the first time, lol.

And yeah... it seems if you didn't buy too big of a house, you didn't run up your credit cards, you didn't buy a gas hog car, and you spent & saved wisely... you don't get any free kickbacks from the government.

It appears that everyone who spent & saved wisely will now be taxed to pay for those who did not.

Obama to say some lost auto jobs not coming back.

Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:10pm EDT

WASHINGTON, July 14 (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama will say in Michigan, a state hard-hit by the downturn in the car industry, that some auto industry jobs that have been lost will not be returning.

"(The) hard truth is that some of the jobs that have been lost in the auto industry and elsewhere won't be coming back," Obama will say, according to prepared remarks released by the White House.

"They are casualties of a changing economy. And that only underscores the importance of generating new businesses and industries to replace the ones we've lost, and of preparing our workers to fill the jobs they create," Obama says in the remarks.

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Obama talking about generating new businesses and industries?

Does he mean those evil corporations that just take advantage of workers?

(Seems maybe Obama finally has some Business 101 student advising him properly.)

July 21, 2009 - NEW YORK (Reuters) The Boston Globe's largest union voted by a nearly 2-to-1 margin on Monday to approve pay cuts and other concessions that would save the 137-year-old paper $10 million a year and allow The New York Times Co to sell it.

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Some workers are exercising common sense.

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) - How much are politicians straining to convince people that the government is stimulating the economy? In Oregon, where lawmakers are spending $176 million to supplement the federal stimulus, Democrats are taking credit for a remarkable feat: creating 3,236 new jobs in the program's first three months.

But those jobs lasted on average only 35 hours, or about one work week. After that, those workers were effectively back unemployed, according to an Associated Press analysis of state spending and hiring data. By the state's accounting, a job is a job, whether it lasts three hours, three days, three months, or a lifetime.

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Stimulating.... lol.

Obama's latest genius idea is in preaching how we need to apply 'innovation' in the business world.

And I agree 100%.

Business world 'innovation' involves how to keep Obooboo from taking hard earned profits and giving them away.

* Innovation: decrease in the number of employees = decrease gov't mandated expenses. Outsource jobs.

* Innovation: gov't makes it law that the business MUST provide health insurance = have fewer employees. Outsource jobs.

* Innovation: more power for unions = fewer profits for the business. Outsource jobs.

* Innovation: gov't mandated paid sick days = pay for no work produced. Outsource jobs.

Current business innovation is directed toward NOT HIRING because of gov't hinderance.

You see, Mr. Obooboo... businesses use innovation everyday to keep YOU from taking their money.

The real innovation this country needs is having Mr. OBooboo make it so businesses WANT TO HIRE PEOPLE BECAUSE IT WILL BE PROFITABLE TO DO SO, lol.

Practice what you preach, Mr. president. Innovation.

Businesses could save themselves without much pain if not for the unions that many of them are saddled with.

An automotive assembly-line worker with a few years under his/her belt is earning (including benefits, pension, bonuses etc) as much as $70.00 an hour. GM has 300,000 employees. If the unions allowed GM to cut salaries and hourly by even as little as $1.00 and hour they could cut their costs by $12 million per WEEK.

Another problem is over-production. No business should have more inventory than it can move in 90 days. GM recently reported that they had 581,000 unsold vehicles in inventory over the previous 90 days (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/gms-inventory-woes/). Thats an over-production of more than half a million vehicles. The problem with going over that 90 days is that those unsold vehicles still have to paid for. There are suppliers out there who are expecting their money by the time that 90 day period is up.

Perhaps Obama should, instead of throwing money at the problem, mandate a wage freeze or even a wage cut across the board for anyone making more than say $25.00 and hour? In other words, don't bust the unions, but tell the unions instead that if they really want to protect jobs, their people need to take some medicine.

With the current government leadership looking to raise taxes and make employers pay for everything from vacations, to family leave, to health insurance, to who knows what next... businesses would be insane to increase hiring in the United States.

Obama went to Harvard and he doesn't know this?

(Only the government can give away all of that money to their employees, and the only way they can do it is to raise YOUR taxes.)

Obama went to Harvard and he KNOWS this, lol. Sorry sucker!

Study: Health Care Reform Mandate Will Punish Employers, Kill Jobs.

Under the provision, known as the play-or-pay mandate, another 10.2 million employees will face stunted wages and the loss of their benefits as employers try to find ways to fund the mandates.

A provision in President Obama's health care reform plan that requires businesses to offer health insurance to their workers or face a federal tax would cost employers at least $49 billion dollars a year, putting 5.2 million employees at risk of unemployment or underemployment, according to a new study.

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This is so 'Basic Common Sense 101' I can't believe there was even a 'study'.

Do people think businesses are simply going to conjure up extra money for health insurance by magic?

Someone has to pay the bill...

What's the link for that TCK.......

The study was necessary because the "poor" people that Obama conned into coming out to vote for him are still in the "hope and change" state of mind. They are still waiting for all those "free" things the Chosen One promised them.......

(Robbi, sorry, I don't know the link to that article up there.)

By ASHLEY M. HEHER, AP Retail Writer Ashley M. Heher, Ap Retail Writer

CHICAGO A year after "shop 'til you drop" stopped, the nation fixates on this question: Will consumer spending ever return to pre-recession levels?

Increasingly, the answer appears to be no. Belt-tightening in bad times is normal. And after every other recession since World War II, penny-pinching quickly fell out of fashion and Americans resumed their demand for houses, cars and everything else.

This time it's different. Like the Great Depression in the 1930s, the Great Recession seems destined to turn many Americans into lasting coupon-cutters, scrimpers and savers. Consumers dug a debt hole over the past decade from which there's no easy climb out. The population segment that drives spending the most baby boomers faces special pressure: Boomers are running out of time.

A study by research firm AlixPartners concluded that once a new normal sets in after this recession ends, Americans will spend at about 86 percent of their pre-downturn level.

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I believe that the 'world economy' method of choosing which country where goods are to be made, as opposed to the former 'choose the U.S. state' method, many American companies will relocate production facilities abroad, and Americans will experience a roughly 15% reduction in standard of living across the board.

15% fewer dollars to spend frivolously... what goods/services will be affected most?

(From msn.com)

We don't like to work.

Sure, now that jobs are scarce, everybody's willing to put in a few extra hours to stay ahead of the ax. But look around: We still expect easy money, hope to retire early and embrace the overly simplistic messages of bestsellers like "The One Minute Millionaire" and "The 4-Hour Work Week."

Unfortunately, the rest of the world isn't sending as much money our way as it used to, which makes it harder to do less with more.

White-collar jobs are now migrating overseas just like blue-collar ones. Kids in Asia spend the summer studying math and science while American mall rats are texting each other about Britney and Miley.

"Kids in Asia spend the summer studying math and science while American mall rats are texting each other about Britney and Miley."

There's the problem right there, summed up in one concise sentence.

The only reason I do not support healthcare reform is that I am too familiar with the fact that our government cannot do anything right.... Not one piece of legislature that comes out of Washington works. If our politicians would focus on doing their jobs instead of trying to make themselves or their cronies rich, they can come up with some effective legislation, but instead all we get is crap that makes a few people rich and leaves everyone else screwed. Maybe its time to replace all incumbent politicians with new people beginning with the ones who have been in washington the longest. That way we can reduce the number of old timers taking the newbies under their wings and into the dark side.

and BTW it we do not have to put up with things the way they are.... Complaining won't do a damn bit of good, however. If you don't like it, do something to change it..... Period!

GE is in the process of laying off thousands of workers in Pennsylvania. Why?

They are finding it difficult, next to impossible, to compete in the world economy while using union labor.

Outsourcing product manufacture because union workers want too much pay.

(Ask yourself - will these jobs come back? The answer? Ask yourself why the jobs went away. )

Tck, I've said it before and I'll say it again. You gotta get out of Union Central! Move to a southern state ('right-to-work' or 'employment-at-will' state) where you can run a business any way you like without having some mobster -- I mean -- union rep telling you what you can or cannot do, while he is collecting his vig -- I mean -- union dues from your employees. Believe it or not, there are a lot of workers who do not want to unionize.

Check your facts gtr - even employment-at-will states (like the one I live in, incidentally) have to follow certain laws if the employees wish to consider unionizing.

It is highly illegal to let an employee go because they are talking union.

Obama is considering passing legislation to make it even easier for unionization to take place, by making the employee's union or no-union votes public. Obama and fellow democrats know that this pro-union legislation will mean the loss of many jobs, and in this current economy they're hesitant to introduce that kind of legislation.

I agree with you that not all workers want to unionize, but when a company has enough employees, the unions come around and encourage unionization (it drives the business owners crazy).

I truly believe it has led to the demise of many, many jobs.

must companies don't like unions. because that means they can treat there employees like crap. [like walmart.] union can be good and bad. but at least with a union. when you feel you have been treated bad. you have someone to speak for you. but not sure if the dues you pay are worth that.

Working in a union when I was 18 years old was one of the best things for me.

I learned what a bunch of lazy & selfish slugs union workers actually were.

After a while I said, "Sorry guys I was raised to work, not to find ways NOT to work. You all do what you have to do to cause slowdowns and non-productivity, I'm going to work to the best of my ability."

(That plant is long gone, by the way. Like so many more just like it. Moved to a country where people want to work.)

Work isn't supposed to be a free ride... work is work. Thank God I learned that early on.

In any company, workers can talk union all they want, but it is the company owners who ultimately decide weather a company will go union. The workers can vote all they want for a union but if an owner says no, to bad.

(Hunter... that's not correct ^, but very funny, lol. )

- - - - - - - - - - -

In Pennsylvania and a majority of states, workers can get up to 79 weeks of unemployment benefits because of extensions approved by Congress in this year's $787 billion stimulus package. About 400,000 people risk running out of benefits this month, the National Employment Law Project says.

- - - - - - - - - - -

$787 billion 'stimulus' to provide over one year of unemployment? How 'stimulating'.

Let's take the unspent 'stimulus' money and provide tax credits for companies that hire people.

(Instead of paying people to not work.)

If the government continues to make it hard on businesses to flourish... well, there wont be jobs.

Sheesh, how many farmers are out of work in California over a little fish?

Now I don't know about this little fish, but I know people have made businesses out of raising fish. So why can't some middle ground be found, starts some businesses that raise these fish and let the farmers work...

Star, that is exactly correct -

The USA currently has an unfriendly economic business development environment.

All of the recent political talk about forced unionization, forced health insurance & other benefits for workers, environmental penalties like the fish example, and the ridiculous 'cap & trade' idea, all have business & industry scrambling to get the hell out of the USA.

And people need J-O-B-S... not free money on a temporary basis.

Obama wants the majority of U.S. citizens on unemployment, working for the government, or on welfare.

That way he can get their votes by promising them all even more free money - financially retarded people believe him.

Nation sheds more jobs than expected

Unemployment rate rises to 9.8 percent as 263,000 jobs are cut

updated 1 hour, 14 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - The U.S. unemployment rate rose to 9.8 percent in September, the highest since June 1983, as employers cut far more jobs than expected. The report is evidence that the worst recession since the 1930s is still inflicting widespread pain.

Persistently high unemployment could weaken the recovery as consumers, concerned about their jobs and incomes, restrain spending. Consumer spending accounts for about 70 percent of the U.S. economy.

The Labor Department said Friday that the economy lost a net total of 263,000 jobs last month, from a downwardly revised 201,000 in August. That's worse than Wall Street economists' expectations of 180,000 job losses, according to a survey by Thomson Reuters.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33135910/ns/business-stocks_and_economy

Businesses are scared to hire......they aren't sure what the government is going to do to them next........Many are probably looking for other places to operate....

Is our government handling this properly???

I don't think the average American worker's sense of "entitlement" is the reason jobs have gone to Mexico, and India, etc. etc.- I think it is because of corporate greed- the bigwigs of the big corporations know that they can hire workers in other countries, literally, dirt cheap- which means a higher profit for the corporations doing so. If it leaves the average joe without a job, well, that's just too bad, apparently. We have become a nation, in all honesty, of people who think that the "good life" is their birthright- all of us who are older, we are nothing like our grandparents, or even our parents- and those under 30 are even worse off than we are- through no real fault of their own. When hard times hit, even harder than they already have, most people won't have clue one about how to deal with it, let alone what to actually do about it- we're a nation of people who live on fast food, for the most part, gogogo all of the time, with blackberries, and expensive toys & vacations- and worst of all, credit junkies. I have a sister in law who is such a spender, that my brother works 7 days a week to pay for it, and they've already lost one house, and bought another. He says, "whatever makes her happy, I don't mind"- that's nothing short of absurd, and he is not a young man. When you go to a store, an expensive store, and buy one of a particular thing in every color, then take it home, and there it sits months later with the price tag still on it- something isn't quite right, there. I like her, and honestly wonder how she would take it if things fall apart, which we all know that they will.

There is so much more to life than where you spend your next vacation- or how much bigger and finer your house is than the "Jones's" next door, or whether or not you have the newest boat/car/whatever- people who are used to having a cushy job need to get ready for the realization that a lot of cushy jobs are going to be cut, and need to learn what they need to do, just in order to survive. And most people in this country, sad to say, are totally complacent, thinking that the way things are, are the way they will continue to be---and I just don't believe that is so.

Scary bit of business, all of it.

"Businesses are scared to hire......they aren't sure what the government is going to do to them next........Many are probably looking for other places to operate...."

My own (very small) company could have hired a few people throughout the years but I learned early on that having employees carries a heavy government liability. I talk with other business owners and they like to hire temps, contract work out, etc., before accepting the liability of having employees.

Businesses need to be encouraged to hire people, not discouraged by government regulations.

I knew that Cap't dude was a lucky guy........

"And most people in this country, sad to say, are totally complacent, thinking that the way things are, are the way they will continue to be---and I just don't believe that is so."

I agree, tough times are headed this way.

The current working age population knows no hard times, it is inconceivable for people to not have money. Credit card spending has always sustained random purchases.

The unemployment $$ pot of gold is gonna run dry, it can't last forever.

I suspect a great deal of people are going to wake up one morning, stunned by their economic situation, and wonder what happened... who is going to take care of us... why did my government allow this to happen... this does not happen in the America we know.

Somebody somewhere had better get Obama pointed in the right direction because I personally think Obama is quickly realizing he is in way over his head.

The times they are a changin'... fasten your seatbelts.

For once, tck, I have to agree with you!

Ok, maybe I've agreed in the past, but not often, lol-

actually tck that is not totally wrong, a mill i worked at for over 3 years tried to go union, but the owners said no so the union idea was shut down.

I am wrong a lot, thanks for the correction.

well that may not be all true though TCK, it may depend on the industry and how the company is actually owned. I know that mill was privately owned but funny thing was employees got profit sharing.

October 22, 2009

Obama doesn't want people to have private sector jobs.

He wants people working for the government and people on unemployment being provided $$ by the government.

That way when election time rolls around he can try and fool voters into thinking he is the supreme provider.

Obama is doing nothing to encourage job creation, nothing.

You are right there tck, but then democrats believe it to be sacrelige to offer a tax break of any kind, which would be a really good tool to encourage job creation..... Im still waiting for the fallout from the newly forced pay cuts on executives...... apparently Wall St is not liking it very much. And with OPEC getting greedy again, we need to keep our eyes peeled.

"Unreal... THIS is why jobs have moved to Mexico and overseas."

Yeah, right, where there is far less violence. lol

I agree with you about the entitlement thing but jobs went over seas because stocks drive all business decisions. Excluding the union fools, why should giving american jobs to other countries not be considered least of all unpatriotic and in my opinion out and out treason. If you give a damn about your country you don't pull the industrial rug our from underneath uncle sams feat. This economy will never recover as a service based economy and If the rest of the world stops using dollars to trade oil this little recession will be the least of our worries.

If you ask stockholders to choose 'patriotism' over higher stock gains, you'll soon see how popular 'patriotism' is.

I know I'll take the higher stock gains, which fund my fund retirement, over keeping union jobs in the USA so I can fund THEIR retirement, lol.

I think patriotism is great when it comes to protecting our borders.

But right now my government isn't looking out for my financial future so I'll do what is necessary.

I have HUGE overseas investments, where they aren't stupidly paying people $65.00 to turn a wrench, and as a result they show some profit.

Patriotism? Make the politicians use the same retirement system we have to use.

October 26, 2009:

"Democrats are close to unveiling a measure with stiffer penalties on employers and a gov't run insurance option"

Stiffer penalties on employers... that encourages job growth, right?

You'd want to hire someone knowing you can receive penalties for that employee, right?

(The blind leading the blind. )

What has Obama been doing to encourage job creation? Nothing?

Why not?

1.) He failed to realize it was that big of a problem.

2.) He had higher priorities (such as campaigning for the 2016 Olympics).

Either way... he screwed up.

tck lets not forget that money-pit he is calling "healthcare reform". I guess he doesn't realize that if its anything worth doing, he wouldn't have to campaign so hard for it.

If you could invest in job loss, you'd be a big winner under our current president.

Obama started out with the idea that businesses were going to pay for everything... higher taxes on businesses... businesses will provide more benefits for the employees... businesses will have to endure 'cap & trade' principles... until... oooops... some economics 101 intern explained to Obama that businesses provide the jobs.

And if you keep piling more burdens on the businesses, the businesses take their business & jobs elsewhere.

Difficult and complex to understand? Not to anyone with a brain.

Ooooooops!

right about now, thats exactly what investors seem to be doing..... investing in job losses..... corperations are continuing to lay people off so their profit margins look better to woo investors. I believe they will really feel foolish when they cannot sell any products to anyone because nobody is earning enough money to buy them...... Am I the only one who sees this as just another bubble that is bound to burst?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/34015514#34015514

The gentleman from South Carolina came across as absolutely clueless. Demonstrating once again how easy it is for Wall Street to play Congress. As I said before, if Cngress really wants to help the country, they should all take a few years off, with pay if necessary.

That wasn't my point in posting that Spart, but you're right. I was more interested the fact that banks are taking OUR money that bailed them out and not returning the money to OUR economy. The lending for small business is horrific!!! But, at least I see that jobs are taking a priority..........

Robbie if you think congress has a clue in the job generation department, I'd like to know if you would like to buy some ice cubes? I can give ya a good price.

LOL.....do you express ship??

No, I don't think they have a clue......but at least they know that it's got to be done....

yeah robbi.... Ive ordered them from him before....he even packs them in dry ice so they dont melt too.

The government can spur job growth if they want to.... All it takes is suspending payroll tax for a year, especially for new hires.... Oh, and vetoing this "health care reform". Ya know? George Bush may have been in bed with Big Oil, but at least he was monogamous.