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Employment in the USA: food for thought...
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tck_beachbum (this topic's creator)
10/30/2009 12:58:41 PM
Posts: 15103
Member since 7/5/2002
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( new topic )
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tck_beachbum (this topic's creator)
10/30/2009 12:59:54 PM
Posts: 15103
Member since 7/5/2002
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I love to study business, economics, and finance, especially in areas related to employment.

Lately I've been reading a great deal about Americans losing their jobs. And I like to study the situation from both sides the employee side and the employer side.

Recently a guy was fired from Home Deport for wearing a religiously worded pin on his clothing while at work, because Home Depot felt the religious message could possibly offend a customer. And as we all know, customers are lifeblood of any business. The fired employee is suing Home Deport.

Any comments? Who's right, who's wrong?

(I looked at it from this angle: would my opinion on the situation change in accordance with the pin saying "In God We Trust"... or... "In Allah We Trust"...? Remember, both statements are religiously worded.)

wink

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rbray14
10/30/2009 1:49:04 PM
Posts: 12
Member since 6/21/2009 4:54:29 PM
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well one hand we have freedom of religion,but on the other hand we have freedom from religion. I've heard bout this story too.he wore it for a year before they fired him for it,and he brought a bible to work and read it to other workers during break time.so it's possible that he was fired for more than just his pin.
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robbi642
10/30/2009 2:21:27 PM
Posts: 12350
Member since 4/6/2000
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When you gain employment with a company you sign statements that say you'll follow the rules of that particular company. Pretty cut and dry. Whether I like this dudes pin or not doesn't make it right for him to alter the dress code for that employer. Trying to make a religous statement in the work place is not the "right time or place" in my opinion. If you want to express your personal views on things, then start your own business and wear any type of pin or clothing you want. Hang posters and pictures in 'your' establishment, it's your right. But, when you sign the line for others, you are giving them control of your life. That's your choice, one of our sacred rights.

I spent alot of years in the military, they didn't allow me to wear my personal pins on my uniform. Only for special occasions were "other items" allowed on my uniform. Black arm bands, or a black stripe across my badge for a fallen fellow police officer, possibly a pin saying you donated blood that day.......It was my choice to enter the military and I signed saying I would follow the rules......

Pretty simple.......

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tck_beachbum (this topic's creator)
10/30/2009 2:50:21 PM
Posts: 15103
Member since 7/5/2002
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(Robbi - I agree, it appears pretty clear to me.)

Bray - so if he had been wearing a pin all along and it said, "In Allah We Trust", and he had been reading the Koran all along, even after warnings not to do so, he should be allowed to continue to do both?

What I find most interesting about this are MY OWN FEELINGS when we substitute something else for the word 'God'... such as 'Allah"... or 'The Devil". I like the idea of the 'God' pin, but if it were 'Allah' or 'the Devil', I'd disagree with him wearing it.

I believe this type of thing is the 'tip of the iceberg'.

How badly does this guy need a job? I know that whenever I worked for a company, I was there to do what the company wanted first, and 'me' second. In other words - I did what the company wanted me to do on company time. If they suggested I change my shirt, I changed my shirt. Why? Because I valued my job.

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Ron_092
10/30/2009 5:17:57 PM
Posts: 950
Member since 5/17/2005
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Several years ago I was the assistant manager for a 13-bay automotive shop. We had several licenced mechanics on staff and usually 4-5 "installers" who were usually apprentices or unlicenced workers who did oil changes, tires and the like.

One of my installers was a little Cambodian guy who stood about 5' and couldn't have weighed 90 lbs. He had emigrated to Canada as a war refugee, and only had one lung, having lost the other to a wound he suffered during the slaughter in his homeland.

He was the hardest working individual I have ever encountered. Despite the fact that he held a degree, he had no problem doing the menial, manual labor that his job required. He showed up early every day and left late. He never complained and always maintained the highest standards.

He had, as you say, "signed on" and committed himself to the job 110%. He did what he ws asked without question, even when the edicts from higher up elicited groans from the other employees.

If I'd had a shop full of workers like him my job would have been much easier. Some people might complain about "immigrants" like the man I'm describing taking their jobs, but those complainers are invariably the ones who feel entitled to that job and probably wouldn't know a work ethic if it jumped up and bit them on the ass.

The lesson is simple. . . do what your employer asks, do it well and do it when you're asked and you'll have that job tomorrow. If not, then remember that there is a 5' tall half-crippled immigrant with a work ethic out there who will take your job in a flash.

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gtr420
10/30/2009 5:20:24 PM
Posts: 522
Member since 10/6/2001
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He probably got fired for wearing non-uniform items on his uniform. And it probably happened after he had been repeatedly warned about it. In all, I do not see this as specifically a religious issue, I see it as a uniform code violation. If I were to wear a pin featuring anything that was not related in some way to my employer on my work uniform, I feel I can expect to get at least a warning for it.
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tck_beachbum (this topic's creator)
10/30/2009 5:31:49 PM
Posts: 15103
Member since 7/5/2002
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"The lesson is simple. . . do what your employer asks, do it well and do it when you're asked and you'll have that job tomorrow. If not, then remember that there is a 5' tall half-crippled immigrant with a work ethic out there who will take your job in a flash."

Yup, an immigrant here, or someone just like him in a foreign country.

Americans aren't 'entitled' to jobs.

When the bozo who got fired from Home Depot gets his 15 minutes of fame, and he can't find another job (who would hire his dumb ass now?), he will be crying a different tune.

wink

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tck_beachbum (this topic's creator)
10/31/2009 9:53:47 AM
Posts: 15103
Member since 7/5/2002
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It appears that companies must publish a 1000 page 'employee handbook' these days.
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Twice_baked_taders
10/31/2009 10:12:02 AM
Posts: 994
Member since 4/6/2006
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"Any comments? Who's right, who's wrong?"

The company is correct, the shirt may offend someone.

The employee is right, They have to right to religious freedom and expression.

However in the work place, while working for the employer, they represent the company and it's interests. They must honor the company rules. What they do on their own time is their business. Unless the courts find the companies rules unconstitutional.

The only way to correct the situation is to only allow company logos and phrases to be shown while at work except for holidays. All employees must wear work apparel.

If that is their policy the guy is toast.

"When the bozo who got fired from Home Depot gets his 15 minutes of fame, and he can't find another job (who would hire his dumb ass now?), he will be crying a different tune."

That's called natural selection. wink

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adamslt
10/31/2009 11:21:55 AM
Posts: 389
Member since 12/6/2008 4:41:50 PM
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this was a good thread tck,i think the man suing home depot over it brings shame on his own religion that hes trying to market,hes there to market and serve home depot,not his beliefs,honestly...thouhg im a religious person myself,i have trouble respecting people who shove their religion in other peoples faces,it ends up being a "look at me" sort of deal,and ends up turning people off towards said religion,now if his religion demanded that he wear said pin,then it would be a different story,but... it doesnt. I get kind of sick of the wanna be martyr syndrome that this mans case represents.

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tck_beachbum (this topic's creator)
11/3/2009 7:59:22 AM
Posts: 15103
Member since 7/5/2002
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wink
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gtr420
11/4/2009 5:42:44 PM
Posts: 522
Member since 10/6/2001
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Adam.... bout time someone said that.

Taders, why make exceptions for the holidays?.... They can wear whatever holiday pins or items are provided for them or at least, approved by the boss.

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Twice_baked_taders
11/4/2009 6:12:27 PM
Posts: 994
Member since 4/6/2006
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"Taders, why make exceptions for the holidays?"

Because though the company makes the rules if you step on peoples holiday cheer it's not good PR

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tck_beachbum (this topic's creator)
11/5/2009 10:42:34 AM
Posts: 15103
Member since 7/5/2002
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Lesson learned by Home Depot and other companies?

The employee should have been terminated for a different reason. Any reason though, just no official reason associated with the real issue.

If someone is stupid enough to aggravate their employer for their own personal agenda they need to realize there are plenty of other people waiting for that job.

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Twice_baked_taders
11/5/2009 10:49:57 AM
Posts: 994
Member since 4/6/2006
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Some people simply think pride/principal is always more important than food and shelter.

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robbi642
11/5/2009 10:52:47 AM
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Member since 4/6/2000
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Yup.......and I read somewhere about 'pride before the fall'.......alot of people get hung up on that......
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gtr420
11/7/2009 5:25:44 PM
Posts: 522
Member since 10/6/2001
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principle is just a flimsy excuse for being an a$$ over nothing
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Twice_baked_taders
11/7/2009 6:29:33 PM
Posts: 994
Member since 4/6/2006
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Principal is of interest to me. ;P
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shilo7
11/9/2009 10:15:58 AM
Posts: 128
Member since 10/28/2004
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Unemployment surpassed the 10% mark nationally. Did you know public school districts received stimulus monies? The district I work for rec'd 9 million. Sure we're creating a bunch of jobs and we're hiring galore. But this money only lasts for 2 years. After that, these folks will be at the unemployment line again.
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tck_beachbum (this topic's creator)
11/9/2009 10:26:12 AM
Posts: 15103
Member since 7/5/2002
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Yes, Shilo7, that's what is most interesting about the 'stimulus' money, to me.

It should be called 'subsistence' money because it doesn't 'stimulate' anything.

The funds simply allow an existing expenditure to continue spending, without creating any future jobs.

Search even deeper... who are you looking for exactly?